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 05-18-2012, 11:43 AM #16 banned     Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,482 Re: Unexploitable calling/bluffing frequency for 7th street Razz \$3/\$6 to \$5/\$10 2.0% / \$0.50 3.0% / \$2.00 3.0% / \$3.00 \$10/\$20 2.0% / \$0.50 2.5% / \$2.00 2.5% / \$3.00 \$15/\$30 2.0% / \$1.00 2.0% / \$2.00 2.0% / \$3.00
 05-18-2012, 11:56 AM #17 old hand   Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: On a crazy train Posts: 1,897 Re: Unexploitable calling/bluffing frequency for 7th street Razz Still, it's very worth noting that the conventional idea that the Nash equilibrium is optimal is based on the game being zero-sum. Poker games are often not zero-sum, and so the Nash equilibrium can be non-optimal. The most obvious example is rake, but another example would be tournament play when in or near the money. Say that there are four players left with stack sizes of 500, 90, 90, and 20. If the two guys with stack sizes of 90 end up heads up in a hand, it is most certainly not zero-sum; if they clash hard over the hand when it's close to a toss-up (such as NLHE underpair vs. AK), it's very -EV for both of them. The more they risk on this hand, the more tourney equity that accrues to the small stack -- no matter who wins.
05-24-2012, 09:49 PM   #18
centurion

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 144
Re: Unexploitable calling/bluffing frequency for 7th street Razz

Quote:
 Originally Posted by RustyBrooks His NE is similarly found - In order to be unexploitable he needs to fold with the same frequency as the pot odds he's given, in this case, 1/8.5 and call the rest.
This is odd... Villain would be betting 1BB to win 6.5BB, so he is getting 13.3% odds on his bluff. So shouldn't the NE for the T987 be to fold something like 13.2% of the time to make sure that he can't profit by bluffing at all?

05-24-2012, 10:21 PM   #19
centurion

Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 144
Re: Unexploitable calling/bluffing frequency for 7th street Razz

Quote:
 Originally Posted by electrical He can't do better with a strategy other than blindly calling or blindly folding. That's what equilibrium means.
I thought if one person deviates from their NE then they will lose if their opponent is playing NE. You're saying GTO can't do better than breakeven against a non GTO opponent? That doesn't seem right.

05-24-2012, 10:29 PM   #20
Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 14,954
Re: Unexploitable calling/bluffing frequency for 7th street Razz

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Loading.... I thought if one person deviates from their NE then they will lose if their opponent is playing NE. You're saying GTO can't do better than breakeven against a non GTO opponent? That doesn't seem right.
It is not guaranteed that if you play NE and your opponent deviates, then you will automatically profit. Think for example of rock paper scissors. The optimal strategy is to randomly choose R P or S. But against your NE strategy you will break even against EVERY other strategy, regardless of how he plays.

 05-24-2012, 10:42 PM #21 centurion   Join Date: Nov 2011 Posts: 144 Re: Unexploitable calling/bluffing frequency for 7th street Razz Okay that makes sense. So really we would only want to revert to NE if we felt like our opponent was better than us in a certain spot, and that we would always be one step behind. I'm more interested in the NE folding frequency with our bluff catcher though. There's only been a few people where I thought, "I wonder what the NE bluff frequency would be" considering everyone calls 100% of the time with their bluff catcher, but almost everday I run into opponents who I really should have a set percentage to be hero folding against. Last edited by Loading....; 05-24-2012 at 10:48 PM.

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