Hi all,

I'm rather new to stud but have gotten seriously fascinated by it recently and have begun studying with the intention of playing in next year's WSOP. So far, the only tournament material i've been able to find bookwise is the chapters by David Grey and Ted Forrest in 'The Full Tilt Poker Strategy Guide'. Granted it is good stuff but i was wondering if is anything people here would suggest to get going in the right direction.

You found the good stuff.

I have not heard of anything better than this.

Thanks Al,

glad to know that i found the prime material the first time out. Been NLHE mad like pretty much everyone else and have had the book for some time but only now have i looked at the stud material seriously.

there is alot more to stud than meets the eye so get plenty of experience playing it to make competing okay for you. good luck.

A late thanks to you Ray, i've been away for a while.

Well, i've been singlemindedly obsessed with stud now and have been reading up what i can get my hands on. Basically it's Chip Reese's chapter in Super/System and the stud chapter in Bobby Baldwin's book as well as books by Ken Warren, Paul Kammen.

So far it's become obvious to me that stud is a game of patience and very selective aggression. As far as tournaments go i'm wondering if the optimum basic strategy would be to wait for a decent two pairs and raise and re-raise from the start? Or would it be better to basically hang around waiting for premium cards until the field's been narrowed some, then change up and go into attack mode?

If you played as much as you have studied, you can read "7-Card Stud for Advanced Players" by now, I guess

general tournament strategy will be about the same as all games.
that last book mentioned might be a good one for you i think.

if you do the work you will be miles ahead of the field. and since stud isnt played so much around few players are really good at it.

There is no specific tournament strategy for stud. Whether you play stud, omaha, hold'em, or even draw, the real game is still tournament poker (playing your stack, bubble play, final table play etc.)

For cash games, the best beginner book imo is Roy West's book on stud, which is also a very funny and entertaining read ("If you haven't understood that by now, you are either not paying attention or you are a hopeless dolt intent upon giving away your vast fortune so that your kids won't get their hands on it" )

Once you master the concepts in that book, read 7CS4AP (and study it) The Chip Reese chapter in SSI is good too

Whereas hold'em (and even games like five card draw) has become extremely tough to beat online now, even at the lowest levels, the opposition at low limit stud online is still ridiculously weak. Almost every table has a few players playing almost every hand on 3rd, chasing everything, not knowing what to do, they just literally want to give you their money, at times, it's just unreal.

Apparently many people just play and don't want to bother learning to play 7CS well and studying it because it is a more complex game than hold'em and takes a lot more effort and time/experience to play it well. If you study the game, you will definitely have an edge over the field and know more about the game than your opponents do

Stud is a game of patience, selective aggression, live cards, and big kickers

The kickers are what i stupidly did not pay much attention to at first until i noticed that without exception, every single author mentions their importance. Took some adjusting to factor in three instead of two hole cards.

Thanks for the heads up on the Roy West book. 7CS4AP is also going to be purchased very soon.

Thankfully, it does seem that tournament strategy isn't as far removed from cash games as NLHE where they are radically different. As far as stud goes, it also feels more "elegant" to use a word than NLHE. Hope to study well and practice plenty before i get down to business.

Playing medium or low pairs without a big overcard kicker is usually trouble and will cost you a lot of money in the long run.

What happens then is that if you improve you will mostly end up with a low two pair, you will like your improvement and stay in for the ride, but will often be beaten or outdrawn by someone who was smart enough to play a better kicker and who will show you a higher two pair than yours by the time you get to the river.

Few people fully realize how lousy a low 2 pair is in stud. It looks not so bad, but in fact it is. Even if you improve to a full house, you'd be surprised how often you'll still end up being against a higher full.

But when you play say (6A)6, once you pair your kicker along the way, you're in much better shape with your two pair.

Playing big kickers and realizing how much a low 2 pair sucks will save you a lot of money playing stud

Btw the Roy West book also has a basic tournament strategy for stud written by Tom McEvoy. You have to at least understand how to play the various stages of a tournament, how to play according to your stack size etc. to be successful in tournaments imo

Ok, both books have been ordered. Am currently working on sheer repetition to get things functioning on an almost purely instinctual basic level before trying more advanced moves.

The Roy West book is very basic and simple, but it will give you a solid foundation for stud upon which you can build your game. And it will plug the most common beginner mistakes and leaks. Imo it is better than the Kammen book.

Although the book is easy and basic, you'll be amazed once you play low limits online how many opponents you'll find who don't even know how to avoid basic mistakes, and who don't even seem to know the advice contained in this book.

The best book on stud is 7CS4AP by far, but frankly, at low limits you don't even need to study that book yet. The book assumes that you are up against thinking players who play well and know what they're doing, which is not the case at low limits.

Got the Roy West book and it is pure gold, easily worth ever cent. Much better than Kammen's book and is the best primer on Stud that i've seen. Casually read it to get a feel for the material and was very impressed. Now going through carefully with a pen and notebook to copy down the personally crucial points. Glad to see that certain hunches i've been having were confirmed.

7CS4AP should be here soon and i'll shelve it until i'm ready for something of that level.

Many thanks for the book info!

good for you now you are on the right track. but the advanced book should at least be gone through soon as there are lots of concepts that will save you money early on that arent in those other books. and not hard to understand.

Will do, Ray!

I should have the book tomorrow morning.

It's not as deep and advanced as 7CS4AP but for beginners it'll give you a good foundation so that when you get playing experience, you won't be a total donk starting out

You can forget about the Kammen book, there are some good parts but some advice in there is just downright wrong. Also, I remember he wrote something like: 'you won't get trips very often, it happened to me only a few times and I've played a lot of hands'. If you got trips only a few times thus far, even at 424-to-1, you really haven't played that many hands

Just a little update...

Both books are absolutely essential material. I take them to work with me everyday and read them at random during breaks and otherwise think of nothing else pokerwise except stud now. I'm in a rather isolated place for the next month then it's back to civilization so i have plenty of time to work things out before finding a game. First i'll venture online since i'll be in New Jersey for the holidays and i'll get something going then sooner or later. then i'm heading to Atlantic City for a day or so before going back to Las Vegas, where i live.

NLHE is sorta blah now, i'm all about 7 card Stud now. Too bad it's pretty much gone in Vegas now as i only know of two places that spread it weekly.

played a hi/low tourney live once. great fun. it was limit so it lasted a long time

OP: If you're going to be in NJ for the holidays, you may want to check out the 20/40 stud game at Harrah's Philly in Chester, PA. It runs Tues and Friday afternoons I think. I played it once, mostly old nits but a few chip splashers came over while I was there. The Sugarhouse poker room in philly just opened and looks like it has 5/10 stud going sometimes.

Thanks for the heads up. I'll see about checking those out if i can.

give us a report when you get back. not just on how you did but how you see things. and ask some questions.

Apparently (according to the Bravo poker app) Harrah's Philly now also features a 5/10 stud game starting at 4 pm on Tuesdays, with a $50 min buy in and $3 rake cap! I was gonna check it out last night, but heard that there was a $215 HORSE tourney on Carbon so I wanted to check that out instead. Good thing I did, since I took 2nd (goddamn HULHE was my stumbling block for the win)