I open 8c(7h5d) UTG 5 handed. No 4 through 9s out.

An ace reraises, another ace folds, a brick folds and the 3d Bring In makes it 3 bets. I call, Ace calls

On 4th street the boards fall

AsTs
3d5s
8c2h

The 35 bets, Should I raise with my dry 82 board? My guess is the ATss will fold if I do. I know this is a math/range question but I can't do the work for a few days while out of town. I will do my best to do it and post it in here when I get back. Let me know what your thoughts are if you have em!

With an 8 door I wouldn't raise third. You can fold or call but making a big pot with an 87 draw versus other low hands is going to be expensive.

I don't play in any game where AsTs would fold with the pot that big, but 3d5s should make it three bets regardless what AsTs does, and your hand is not doing great against anything here.

I call and try to get the As out next card if I improve. With less money in the pot you could fold here.

What electrical said.

I'd like to add that as an admittedly infrequent poster a problem that I notice in this forum is that so few posters mention stakes and game dynamics, reads, histories, etc, which really do affect things and makes advice a lot easier to give.

But, still, what electrical said.

You are going to get 3-bet often (as you should) by the lower-low and the xxAsTs might not fold, that would be a nightmare compared to what you gain (isolating yourself against a hand that might still scoop), it's a call on 4th.

You have a bit razzy hand in that field with two Aces and a low and face up low with your 8 door, considering calling, and fold if 6s are dead.

Fold 3rd after the rr. Terrible call.

As played, call 4th I guess. I wouldn't love it though. Bad spot, brought on by your 3rd st play.

Thread hijack attempting to understand modern usage:

Is this really a 'squeeze' play if everybody knows where everybody is, and knows what will happen next?

At one time I thought there had to be some uncertainty facing the person being squeezed. Also if (**)82 pops 4th, it reduces any ambiguity that playing an 8 door card might provide, so it's putting ATss in a situation where he has more, rather than less, information.

The only way it works is if the Ace puts him on trips. The only problem is the 8 low draw is not drawing well and I don't see many folds with this board. Unless you are playing very tight players who can fold aces. That is if the person even has aces. I see people playing A with two low cards continue regardless of what comes on 4th street. The 35 is very concerning for the 8 low draw. I think fold before 4th is a better option on this board.

plus knocking out the high hand here not only is tough but you are the one likely to get squeezed. and your hand has little value against either hand left in the pot.

as said you didnt think it through on 3rd. as that was the time to get out.

the only reason to stay on is if you can read the low hand for a high pair, which he can certainly have as another ace was out. and he would be thinking something along your line.

Limp your entire continuing range when their is an ace behind you unless you also have an ace.

There, I said it.

Been thinking about it for a while. Can't see how it could ever be too costly. Makes life easy. You can back raise monsters.

Please flame me.

I don't understand how I can fold for 1 bet close the action here on 3rd

It's 2 bets (?) and you're against an ace and a 3 who both look like they want to play. At least that's how I am reading it. Plus, I don't think you are closing the action because the ace still has an option.

Um, yeah....what Mack said.

People that play stud8 for a living argue that this is a fold. Can you put villains on ranges?
I think we can actually fold 3rd if we assume that:

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: aj

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
875	27.48%	74,219	159,781	206	128,388	609
23,24,25,34,35,36,45,46,56,57,67,78,66-aa,*a|a	29.29%	77,006	163,263	198	136,215	924
ac2c,ac4c,ac5c,ac6c,ac7c,ac8c,2c4c,2c5c,2c6c,4c5c,4c6c,4c7c,5c6c,5c7c,aa,33|3c	43.22%	149,782	276,663	182	151,527	1,068

But folding means we will get outplayed and won't realize our equity and have a ton of RIO. If we put villain on loser ranges this becomes more of a call:

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: aj

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
875	29.96%	79,267	208,483	180	105,383	402
23,24,25,34,35,36,45,46,56,57,67,78,66-aa,*a|a	32.15%	83,435	194,273	417	138,654	1,862
ac2c,ac4c,ac5c,ac6c,ac7c,ac8c,2c4c,2c5c,2c6c,4c5c,4c6c,4c7c,5c6c,5c7c,aa,33,a2,a5,a4|3c	37.89%	110,860	196,785	321	203,240	1,881

I stil think it's a call so could you tell me common scenarios postflop where we get knocked out?

764 and 754 against those ranges have actually less equity - would you muck those hands?
Do you continue (readless) here with 876, 765, 654-?

652 vs the strong range has 26% equity 642 has 25,8%

what about a62?

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: aj

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
a26	27.98%	46,934	95,369	130	216,729	1,978
23,24,25,34,35,36,45,46,56,57,67,78,66-aa,*a|a	28.51%	66,401	173,835	154	128,590	1,946
ac2c,ac4c,ac5c,ac6c,ac7c,ac8c,2c4c,2c5c,2c6c,4c5c,4c6c,4c7c,5c6c,5c7c,aa,33|3c	43.51%	134,533	330,557	194	106,792	784

i would prob fold 875 but call any 3 connected or any 3 suited. I would also call A26 and find a fold with a27

There really is no "squeeze" in limit poker. To me the squeeze is a pre flop semi-bluff that takes advantage of fold equity that is minimal in limit.

Just to be my normal contentious self, I would say that there are more squeezes in limit poker than in big-bet formats.

Limit squeezes tend to be on the later, big-bet rounds and there has to be a bit of ambiguity about the player we are leading to, so that the player we are leading through has a legitimate fear of being jammed.

No limit has more heads-up action, and it can be difficult to squeeze one opponent -- some might even say impossible.

Pot limit has some squeezes in the middle rounds when big stacks are in play and players are wary of reaching their commitment threshold, and on the river, especially in split-pot games.

But I probably have made more deliberate fixed-limit squeezes by volume, despite the game's near extinction.

Not contentious, it's just that we're thinking in different terms. The squeeze to me, is a specific form of pre-flop semi-bluff, and certainly there are way more semi-bluffs in limit, just not on early streets in stud games (especially not a split pot game) or pre flop in LHE.

Hmmm I just revisited this thread and realized I look like an idiot and had the action wrong either in the OP or in my replies. Sorry!

i wouldn't even consider folding 3rd for 2 more. is the cap 4 or 5 bets? if it was 5, would anyone agree with raising 4th or is that still spewy?

Don't complete on 3rd, don't call 3b, don't jam 4th

875 is fine to open but not with two aces behind

You're probably not playing with people who can hand read well but your range is pretty narrow and weak so it makes the Aces reraise range wide but still stronger than yours

I'm on the phone so if this doesn't make sense my bad