Poker Stars $20/$40 Limit Stud Hi/Lo $4 Ante - 6 players - View hand 1708224
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

3rd Street: (1.2 SB)
Seat 1: xx xx 2 ____Seat 1 folds
Seat 2: xx xx 7 ____Seat 2 folds
Hero: 5 5 Q ___Hero completes
Seat 4: xx xx 4 ____Seat 4 folds
Seat 5: xx xx 4 ____Seat 5 folds
Seat 6: xx xx 2 ____Seat 6 brings in for $6____Seat 6 calls

4th Street: (3.2 SB) (2 players)
Hero: 5 5 Q 8 ___Hero checks___Hero calls
Seat 6: xx xx 2 3 ____Seat 6 bets

5th Street: (2.6 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 5 5 Q 8 7 ___Hero folds
Seat 6: xx xx 2 3 2 ____Seat 6 bets

equity wise this is a call on 5th, but how do we factor in RIO?
what s your line with this hand?



here is an extreme example:

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
qs5s5d8s7d	38.19%	134,686	300,605	4	33,957	0
a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,23,24,25,26,27,28,34,35,36,37,38,45,46,47,48,56,57,58,67,68,78,22-aa,*2,*d*d,ak|2d3d4d	61.81%	276,449	299,391	4	304,725	0

even vs this board we could call down blindly, but I am sure we do more mistakes than he does.

The ranges you have for villains hands are wayyyy to wide imo. Unless they are ultra passive there is no way your not going to get raised on third with a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,ect. You can safely remove a lot of that stuff.

Also if he's competent he likely knows you don't have split Q's as it would make more sense to lead 4th with that hand imo. And there are two 4's two 5's a 2 dead, which hurts villain this hand. I personally likely call on 5th and figure out what to do on 6th. If we both brick 6th its a call call imo, no matter what hero gets on 7th.

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
qs5s5d8s7d	35.26%	106,915	295,473	7	28,733	0
a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,23,24,25,26,27,28,34,35,36,37,38,45,46,47,48,56,57,58,67,68,78,22-jj,*d*d,ak|2d3d4d	64.74%	283,766	304,520	7	348,847	0

this one is better. dead 2 so he s prob folding 22x no wheel or K.

why should he 2bet AWW pre?

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
qhqs5d8s	48.11%	184,122	381,088	6	21,275	78
a2,a3,a4,a5,a6,a7,a8,23,24,25,26,27,28,34,35,36,37,38,45,46,47,48,56,57,58,67,68,78,22-jj,*d*d,ak|2d3d	51.89%	206,813	218,906	6	283,072	78

why should I bet 4th w/ QQ here? this makes sense if his range is wider then this one here.

Reads would help, but in general at this limit if the villain just flats on third, and he catches a good looking card there's no reason to think we're not in good shape on 4th given third's action.

Also it's kinda thin and player dependent but repping split Q's on 4th gives you a bit more leeway later in the hand, and keeps us in the betting lead, unless we get raised on 4th, in which case we know more about his hand than just c/cing would let us know.

Lets say we are on 5th street and have to keep the betting lead for some reason.
there are 4BB in the pot, and we have xy% equity,
but our hand sucks and we might get raised later on and have to call mostly,
but sometimes even have to fold.
We can say we get our % from an on average 7.5BB pot if we win,
but lose a ~9BB pot if we call his raise and lose, and a few times we fold/ dont show down.
the possibility of having to fold on 6th or 7th in a few cases
and other variables make it very difficult to simply bank on math/equity.


you dont call down with your hand against "234 suited open" just because equity says its okay.
math is one thing, but as long as you dont think that advertising will help at your current table,you should fold.
id wonder, if any of the more experienced experts of this forum would say anything slightly different.

i think you overestimate equity-percentage on earlier streets.
its a limit game and your equity can change drastically on the next street, and you are not all-in yet.
if you are on 6th street, equity% is much more important than on 4th or 5th.
you simply dont want to put money in a small pot while you are already behind, just cause 40% is enough to do so.
you often dont even get to showdown with weak holdings, means equity goes out the window.
although you lose respect by your opponents if you station those hand and show them down.
with more experience you will find the right move a lot easier esp. on 5th.
3rd and 4th is a lot of automatic moves and 6th (and 7th) you can relie on equity a lot,
but 5th demands a lot of experience.



i just wrote out of my arse, might have to correct myself partly tomorrow.


Let me give you a link to a thread i made about implied odds and how i try to do the math:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/20...flush-1184099/



my first thought was:
FOLD PRE, its just a pair of fives, any lowdraw with a 6,7,8 can accidently outdraw your high here.
If it were at least sixes, sevens or eights...

Folding 6th has to be a big deal. I think you are right and equity doesn't show you this.

I don't know about equity being more important on 6th then 4th 5th. I think if your hand looks great in terms of playability it is almost always reflected in equity too in stud 8.


Lets say we bet 4th street to "see what my opponent is holding". If villain is thinking among the same line, he should flat 4 unpaired lows to represent twopair on the end when he is paired up. This is probably more important for him then raising and gaining a fraction of a bet now.
On the other hand he could be raising a pair + connected low cards or lowpair +ace and low card to get paied when he makes twopair and bets it on the end or take a free card when I make an open pair meaning I have twopair and he then can c/b a nonpairing low card on 5th even though he has a pair +lows.

So what exatly do we learn from his hand if we bet and get called or raised?

How do you think most people will react with holding a or b that makes betting a better play when we are a dog against his range?


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I agree with you HU4holes that often equity says call but almost never realize our equity. Can't think of an example now will post one when I find one when I play. on the other hand you don't need to be right often because on 4th you get a good price on a peel.