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Old 04-27-2017, 03:38 PM   #1
MacauBound
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shorthanded razz spot on 6th

Online 3 handed 10/20 (BTC site so approx. $13/$26) 12 game mix; 2.5 ante, 5 bring, 10 complete - both players are decent aggressive regs, main villain is slightly less solid in the limit games though I'm no razz pro

10 brings in A completes Hero flats (34)6 and the 10 folds

Sometimes I will two bet this hand, but in this hi ante structure I didn't mind flatting to possibly let the T in, and also to protect my range when I two bet weaker 6s.

Bring: (xx)T

Villain: (xx)A438

Hero: (34)6J5T

6th seems to be the next decision point. I could be drawing dead or he could have paint or two pair. So I'm giving him something like a made 87 as a median hand. I need an A or 2 to be able to x/r and catching a 7 or 8 are bluffcatchers. Villain bets and we . . .
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Old 04-28-2017, 02:53 AM   #2
LUCIUS VARENUS
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Re: shorthanded razz spot on 6th

Fold IMO.

From a playability perspective: He only needs one card to have you beat right now and your draw is rough, meaning that if you catch a 7 or an 8 it might not be good enough. I don't see you winning this one unimproved, and a lot of things need to go right, like for him to not improve whilst you also sufficiently improve.

From an odds perspective, you're not getting the correct price to draw. Your immediate pot odds are bad and your effective pot odds are even worse!
----
BTW I'm curious why you chose to not fold on 4th street? The pot was small, you had a bad hand, the other guy looked like he had a better hand, looks like an easy fold to me!

Also, i read what you say about 3rd, but don't you think he should really be completing a high percentage on 3rd? I think you should raise him as a "resteal". Chances are he only has a 2 card hand right now.
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Old 04-28-2017, 05:07 AM   #3
RolldUpTrips
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Re: shorthanded razz spot on 6th

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacauBound View Post
Online 3 handed 10/20 (BTC site so approx. $13/$26) 12 game mix; 2.5 ante, 5 bring, 10 complete - both players are decent aggressive regs, main villain is slightly less solid in the limit games though I'm no razz pro

10 brings in A completes Hero flats (34)6 and the 10 folds

Sometimes I will two bet this hand, but in this hi ante structure I didn't mind flatting to possibly let the T in, and also to protect my range when I two bet weaker 6s.

Bring: (xx)T

Villain: (xx)A438

Hero: (34)6J5T

6th seems to be the next decision point. I could be drawing dead or he could have paint or two pair. So I'm giving him something like a made 87 as a median hand. I need an A or 2 to be able to x/r and catching a 7 or 8 are bluffcatchers. Villain bets and we . . .
He can VERY easily have a paint here or pair(s). Don't agree that making a 7 on the river is a bluffcatcher in the slightest. FWIW against a range of one good one and one random you're only a 2:1 dog. Make the random a T or better and you're still only 30/70. HAVE to call.
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Old 04-28-2017, 09:30 PM   #4
monikrazy
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Re: shorthanded razz spot on 6th

As played we really have to call, hero can think about a tight fold on 5th depending on villain's overall image
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Old 05-04-2017, 12:04 AM   #5
MacauBound
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Re: shorthanded razz spot on 6th

thx guys, I think what I'm hearing is that the correct line 'depends' on a pretty common poker concept: stakes/opponents matter.

Somebody playing pretty big isn't going to assume their opponents are playing honestly and straightforward. So maybe that informed Rolldup's analysis and he called the particulars, as after I folded I found out he had paint and a paired low in the hole. In a big ante structure w aggressive players that have played a lot together (I wanted to get opinions w/o injecting too much of a read), the low card A could be stealing w almost anything.

Against players w a less aggressive dynamic or at lower stakes, when the A opens and mashes bet as low cards run out, we might have only a few clean outs and possibly face some reverse implied odds if we are depending on 7/8 to win the pot.

But that BTC holy ****
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:06 PM   #6
zoogenhiem
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Re: shorthanded razz spot on 6th

I don't know too much about razz but what I do know makes me thing a fold on 4th would be atrocious. You're playing 4 handed and the villain might be completing near 100% as a steal with an ace up, especially with the big antes. For this reason, a resteal might be good and maybe you even get some info if you get 3bet although that depends on if the villain has a 3betting range (which some people don't since equities run pretty close on 3rd), but flatting seems fine for the reasons you said.

A razz maxim I've heard is that you should call if you're one card behind, so that's what you are now on 4th. It is insanely easy that the villain has a pair or a paint card. If calling here is torching, I know nothing.
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Old 05-15-2017, 05:20 PM   #7
jdr0317
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Re: shorthanded razz spot on 6th

I think I like a call here. We do have decent equity against a hand as strong as 84 (3 A's, 3 2's, 4 7's assuming he doesn't improve), the pot is now pretty big, and sometimes he's paired up low cards, catches a mediocre razz hand on 7th and checks and we can show down our hand (not often, though, as I doubt he's giving us much worse than the T6 you're showing him), plus 5.75:1 is a pretty decent price if we're going to play 7th well. Given that the best hand we can have is T65 once we call 6th (and in fact is likely a huge chunk of our range), I'd be tempted to call 7th on any improvement.
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Old 05-17-2017, 06:54 PM   #8
ChipsAhoya
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Re: shorthanded razz spot on 6th

pretty easy call here.
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