Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: I'm AKA King Nut, BTW. PW probs
Rules for NL Stud with a flip
I haven't posted these for a while, so here goes again: some games you really should try.
Stud with a two-card flip, fka/aka mississippi 7cs, when played with fixed-limits or 1/2 pot-limit is simply 7cs with no bet on fourth street, so everyone gets two cards for their opening bet/call, instead of only one. So the game is shortened by one round of play and five cards are in play at the second round.
Razz with a flip and Hilo with a flip are also very playable, and might appeal to those who are used to the four-round layout of omaha. If you want to try them with 1/2 pot betting I suggest you use the eight-card version, which uses an extra hole-card, so you can start with (A23)4, (AAs2s)3s. etc. You can use a maximum of two of your starting hole-cards, so (AAA)x is a pair of aces, not trips. To enforce that rule the river hole-card must be kept under a marker, separate from the other cards, or else the hand is dead.
Eight-card Stud with a flip also works for high-poker. .
Stud with a flip for non-fixed limits, ie, PL, NL and 1/2 Pot, has the additional change of dealing the river face-up, so that straights and flushes, or big trips, can be the absolute nuts at showdown, which makes them much more valuable in a PL/NL game than when the river is turned down. The same applies to the eight-card version when played PL, ie, deal the river face-up, which of course removes the issue of keeping the river separate from the other cards.
Betting: Pot-limit pre-flip and NL after the flip works well. But you can use either from start to finish. Half-pot is also excellent. Ante, of course, and don't use a low-card bring-in: it's just not right. I recommend a bring-in of half the pot from the high-card, in the dark that is, with no choice about the size of the bet. If there are two of the same high card showing OR the high card is lower than a Jack, then the opening bet reverts to bet-or-fold, with the minimum being one ante, maximum the pot (or your stack if playing NL all the way) If the high card folds, the next highest card must open or fold, and if no one opens, the low card wins by default. I prefer the forced bring when a player has a genuinely high card because it forces the rocks to play more hands and makes pre-flip raises much more viable. It's hard to raise someone with a strong card showing in PL Stud if they only open with them about 1/4 of the time, or if they bet the maximum after looking at their cards. But if they've been forced to bring it in with a standard bet, they will only have a pair about 1/7th of the time, so you can maybe take a shot.
Some starting hands and rough averages of their chances of improving on the flip, using the rule of two and four, ie, counting 49 cards as unknown.
(TsJs)Qs: With 25 outs you can improve at least once on the flip over 70% of the time, not including gutshot draws. You can improve twice on the flip up to ~25% of the time, including those which make a a gutshot draw plus a flush draw, or pair. And you will flip a either made straight or flush about 1/13th of the time, ie, about 1/25 for each. Those figures will be higher or lower, according to how clean your cards are.
(AsKs)T With nine outs, you pair one of your starting cards over 35% of the time on the flip, with the additional chance of a running pair adding another 6%. You have backdoor chances of flipping a flush draw (1/25) or a gut-shot draw (30%) or even a made broadway (~1/70) which is not as bad as it might look when you consider that the chances of flopping a straight in Holdem are only 1/125.
(As2)2s: with five outs you have almost a 1/5 chance of flipping aces up, or better, with additional chances of a running pair boosting your chances of improvement to over 25%. If you are playing a clean pair against eight players then your chances of flipping trips are about 1/11.
(AAs2s)3s 4sA 6s (3)
That's a hand which flips a set of Aces. a straight-flush draw and a low draw, then makes a six-low and a flush on the turn, and then a full-house on the river. So it could be Razz, Hilo or high-only, it's good in all of them.
If the river card had been a deuce then it wouldn't have made a full-house, because AAA22 requires all three starting hole-cards, and only two may be lawfully used. So the river card must be kept separate, under a marker.
The eighth card makes it possible to make a low and a full-house, or quads in one hand, which is impossible when only seven are used, so the game fully exploits the ranking system it uses, unlike traditional Stud8.
Last edited by DavidZ; 08-11-2012 at 04:26 AM.