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Old 02-26-2017, 06:33 PM   #1
wheelflush
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razz low card bring-in

I played in a razz game where the low card was the bring-in. what's your take on this? They said it increased the action, but not that I could see. Somebody raised and I folded (22)2 or (K5)3, whatever.
Adjust by open limping more?
Convince them they're wrong?
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:12 PM   #2
AKQJ10
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Re: razz low card bring-in

Was going to post this question (same game). Glad you beat me to it. I'll wait to hear opinions from more seasoned razz fans.

For strategic adjustments: Structure is $15-30, $3 bring, $5 ante. My read of the player base is most know how to play poker in general (say LHE and LO8) pretty decently to excellently, but no one is a razz (or any kind of 7-stud) specialist.

Also FWIW aces virtually never bring in since the bring is according to 7-stud-high rank, even though aces do play for low as with most razz.
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:37 AM   #3
LUCIUS VARENUS
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Re: razz low card bring-in

Razz is a game without much action in it I find because it's too easy to see who is winning.

Players with high doorcards generally do not vp$ip and people do not want to steal from players who have strong door cards.

So what this does is make the game even more tight.

Refer to stud high low in your argument. Stealing is not very common in stud 8 because everyone knows the bringin has a good hand

Stealing is probably the biggest source of action in poker in general. It makes people run multi street bluffs and put good money after bad.

Disincentivising it kills the action.

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Old 02-27-2017, 06:42 PM   #4
monikrazy
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Re: razz low card bring-in

A good rule to increase the action is to make the hi card complete like normal and force the lowest card to complete (if someone else completes before they act he has no obligation to do anything)

That starts all sorts of limp-raising and is great for the game
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:04 PM   #5
AKQJ10
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Re: razz low card bring-in

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
A good rule to increase the action is to make the hi card complete like normal and force the lowest card to complete (if someone else completes before they act he has no obligation to do anything)

That starts all sorts of limp-raising and is great for the game
So the high card has to bring in for the full amount, then the low card has to limp? or to raise?

E.g. $15/30, $5 bring might become:

K bring $15 (mandatory high card)
Q folds
3 limps $15
J folds
3 limps $15 (mandatory low card, I think, or maybe has to raise to $30)
K folds
4 raises, etc.

Am I understanding right?
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Old 03-01-2017, 08:39 PM   #6
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Re: razz low card bring-in

(I read) that the way they used to do it in Vegas was make the high card bring it in for the minimum ($5) as usual, but make the low card complete (to $15). But I think action skipped anyone between those players, so effectively started to the left of the low card.
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Old 03-02-2017, 12:25 AM   #7
monikrazy
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Re: razz low card bring-in

Quote:
Originally Posted by AKQJ10 View Post
So the high card has to bring in for the full amount, then the low card has to limp? or to raise?

E.g. $15/30, $5 bring might become:

K bring $15 (mandatory high card)
Q folds
3 limps $15
J folds
3 limps $15 (mandatory low card, I think, or maybe has to raise to $30)
K folds
4 raises, etc.

Am I understanding right?
Hi card would bring in for 5
3 of clubs would be forced to complete no matter how many players limp
If another player completes ahead of 3c he has no obligation to put any more $ in pot


I didn't mean to suggest hi card should complete instead of bring-in (normally), I agree lo card bringing in is horrible for the game

Last edited by monikrazy; 03-02-2017 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 03-02-2017, 05:30 PM   #8
Phat Mack
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Re: razz low card bring-in

Quote:
Originally Posted by chillrob View Post
(I read) that the way they used to do it in Vegas was make the high card bring it in for the minimum ($5) as usual, but make the low card complete (to $15). But I think action skipped anyone between those players, so effectively started to the left of the low card.
This. Not a big razz fan, but I think this is the best way to play it.
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Old 03-03-2017, 11:19 PM   #9
leavesofliberty
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Re: razz low card bring-in

You can just spread a higher limit for more action.
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Old 03-05-2017, 08:24 PM   #10
AKQJ10
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Re: razz low card bring-in

Quote:
Originally Posted by monikrazy View Post
Hi card would bring in for 5
3 of clubs would be forced to complete no matter how many players limp
If another player completes ahead of 3c he has no obligation to put any more $ in pot


I didn't mean to suggest hi card should complete instead of bring-in (normally), I agree lo card bringing in is horrible for the game

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't understand "complete like normal" but with the normal low bring-in that makes lots of sense. Presumably the BI is still allowed to complete, freeing the low card from any obligation, although (a) that should be really rare in full-table (longhanded) razz (b) it's a counterintuitive tactic since BI knows she can raise the forced completion.

Anyway, if the razz rounds don't have enough action, my preferred solution is to not include razz but apparently 50% of our mixed game population just loves it.
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