Will be playing the $1500 WSOP Razz event and trying to fine tune how I want to play certain situations. Situation #1: On 3rd street with a strong hand (3 babies) should I be raising/reraising?
Assumption: Raising will only build the pot. No one that is still in the hand will fold to the raise.
Pros:
1. It builds the pot and it is very likely I have the best hand.
2. If 4th street is not very good, I might have proper odds to see next card.
3. Its aggressive.
Cons:
1. It increases variance. Looking at the tournament structure it might be critical to decrease variance as much as possible during the early rounds.
2. A large pot decreases the chances for my opponent to make an error chasing.
3. Makes it easier to narrow my starting hand ranges.

I think the question of controlling variance will be the deciding question.

Thoughts?

disclaimer: I have never played wsop razz or any wsop tourney

you kind of answered your own question when you said controlling variance is the deciding question. It all depends on how you are approaching the tourney. It might be a little better to play tighter in the early stages and loosen up as the tourney goes on (basic tourney strat ldo).

The point you made about building a pot to encourage chasing is pretty valid. For that reason, I would lean more towards being aggressive and hoping your hand holds.

If you want a real answer though, maybe someone like Chips can offer some advice for tourney razz play

i agree with all pros and cons you mentioned but i think the decision on raising 3rd is very player dependent as well.

I dont know what is usually the skill level of the WSOP Razz event players but if u happen to sit w loose/inexperienced players who like to limp alot of mediocre/crappy hands(like the typical razz player does),especially in the early levels i would tend to raise alot preflop w premium hands for value and to charge them the max for tryin to outdraw me with their crap.

On the other hand,if you find that a player is very aggressive and is probably stealin really wide then again you want to charge him the max and punish him for being too frisky.

Also,raising 3rd w premium holdings would balance your re-stealing attempts.

Finally,raising 3rd can be really profitable against a weak passive/nit since you generate more fold equity by showing so much strength and the nit might even make an incorrect laydown on 4rth thinking hes really far behind when actually 4rth street paired one of your baby hole cards.

GL

Keep in mind also that you will be playing with the same players for hours. If you show a willingness to raise and re-raise you may keep people from limping or calling before you, because they will expect you to make them pay. Some people won't even notice of course.

It is very rare for someone to call in razz and fold for one more bet. It is more common but still not that common for someone to call and fold for 2. However, people definitely routinely fold their bad hands for 2 cold if they haven't acted yet. So consider the people yet to act FIRST and the people who've already acted second.

Finally, most of the field will be making bad calls on 4th when the pot is small and they brick. If you're OK, you won't be. If your opponents continue liberally on 4th with bad odds you can consider keeping the pot small on 3rd and seeing how the cards fall on 4th.

Your equity edge against a decent range is basically non-existent, you only will have an edge if the up cards favor you dramatically or if they are willing to call with a brick. Raising in razz on 3rd is strategic more than it is for equity. It's not like holdem where you can be WAY ahead and bluffs actually work.

Yes, controling variance is my answer, but I've been known not to get the right answer. Still unsure that this is the approach to take.

Thanks, you have made a strong case for making this player dependent.

In a tournament the game theory reasons for raising that Rusty lays out really well are not usually as valuable because you will not be playing with the same table as often (and because of the pressure of the structure).

Hm? At a wsop event you'll probably play with the same 8 people for hours on end. It'll take forever before one busts.

In my experience, there are a few bustouts before the dinner break, but then there is a wave of them as players with short stacks gambool it up (seems they eschew having to come back into the poker warehouse after dinner to play a 3 BB stack in a razz tournement.)
Ask yourself WHY this is basic tourney strat, and you may remember which kinds of tourneys this axiom holds true for.

In a really deep structure closer to cash at early levels. Sadly my tourney experience in Razz is 100% online and never deep.

In a live razz tournament, is there a forced bring-in and a forced completion, or only the forced bring-in?

Just a forced bring-in. But I've only played in two of them in the last 6 years.

Don't mind mack, he still tries to get tix for Sammy Davis jr whenever he goes to vegas. There's only a forced bring-in in all stud type games at WSOP, but you of course have the option to open complete the bring in, which I have done by accident before.

What is a forced completion?

i'm assuming it means if you are first to enter the pot you must complete and not limp for the bring-in amount

fact: i busted before dinner break one year. takes a speical skill

High card brings it in for the minimum, low card makes it a small bet. Action is on the person to the left of the lowest card. Lowest card has an option to raise when the Action returns to him.

Example:

Seat 1, K
Seat 2, t
Seat 3, 5
Seat 4, 2
Seat 5, 8

$100-200; $20 ante; $40 bring-in.

K has a forced bet of $40.
2 has forced bet of $100.
8 calls $100.
K folds.
T folds.
5 calls $100.
2 raises $100 to $200.

I know they didn't play this way on the interwebs, but thought they might have revived it for the WSOP.

I think those rules have gone the way of the silver platters:

I had gotten it into my head that razz had been dropped from the wsop for 20 years, then brought back in 2004. I googled it and found out they had been playing razz all along. Google couldn't tell me why they play razz, but there you have it.

I liked Sammy Davis until he hugged Richard Nixon. Nehru jackets indisputably cool IMO.

I insist that you raise the 3rd but slow down on the big bet streets. If you play it like a cash game and jam with your big draws aggressively you may find yourself knocked out of the tournament before some of the horrible players that you'll be playing against.

The type of player I'm talking about will be seeing all 7 streets, so don't expect them to fold because your hand looks scary. If you're bricking up just keep checking when they check.

My biggest mistake during my first wsop razz event was expecting reasonable folds from the hands that I could easily fold out online.

I kept betting like I normally would, but they kept calling me with some truly ugly hands. Even though my bricked up hands were always concealed and my up cards always beat them, somehow they'd still manage to make it to the showdown with a J9 low to beat me. My aggression became my undoing.

Many players are pretty clueless, so don't expect them to be reasonable in very obvious folding spots. Most importantly avoid going crazy with hands that look scary but have no showdown value.

They brought back the $10,000 RAZZ this year and the $1500 RAZZ. Last couple of years there has been only one event for RAZZ at $2500.

At times it seems that reasonable folds for some players are very rare in Razz.

BTW, the biggest donks can be name players with lots of TV time playing nlhe. If you ever catch yourself saying, "He can't call here," he will call. If you ever catch yourself saying, "For him to make that bet, he must have," he doesn't know that, and doesn't have it.

well said
this year is the first ever $10k razz event (in the history of mankind. probably.)

yeah