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Pushing Buried Overpairs on 3rd Pushing Buried Overpairs on 3rd

08-10-2016 , 01:28 PM
Edit: Intended to be Stud Hi discussion.

Say you complete earlyish with (KK)6 and get raised by xxJ, back to you HU. Against an "average" opponent, how often are you reraising vs flatting? The assumed plan with flatting would be to also call 4th then raise 5th if boards cooperate.

Is the breakdown of raise / call different if you act after the big card, so xxJ completes into your (KK)6? Raise here doesn't seem as strong to the villain.

I'd raise a lot more often if there are potential callers left to be squeezed out, but if it is going to be HU anyway it seems like raising is too strong and takes away the surprise raise on 5th which could ultimately gain half a bet... More disciplined opponents might even get away on 4th / 5th when the lower door reraises vs often going to showdown if you just call 3rd.

Maybe my image is just too tight, I suppose if I also reraise in spots like that with (6A)6 and big 3-flushes then I can happily jam with the goods.
Pushing Buried Overpairs on 3rd Quote
08-10-2016 , 01:42 PM
I play a lot more S/8 than I do Stud/Hi, but I generally re-raise there with the hope that a bet on 4th and 5th might get my opponent to fold if I haven't improved by then (if I manage an ace on 4th or 5th and their hand hasn't improved it generally works even better). I like to show strength. I don't want to draw down the rest of the way with Kings if I don't have to.

I think the problem with waiting until 5th street to raise is that you might show a q/A or a small pair on the board by then and you lose the ability to raise. In that case, you might be losing that extra bet from 3rd when you were ahead.

I might have a mistake in my logic here though. I probably play 10 hands of Stud/8 for every hand of Stud/Hi.
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08-10-2016 , 01:50 PM
Definitely a fair point to consider cases when your board takes the lead for high so that you can't raise 5th, or when villain's board scares you from doing so. I guess the gain from waiting is higher when there is a larger gap between your door and villain's so that you're more likely to act last.

So are you saying basically push it 100%? 90%? I still pump it fairly often when the higher card completes into me, but in the first case I mentioned where you complete and get raised I feel like I "play along" and call 3rd quite a bit, perhaps too much.
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08-10-2016 , 02:05 PM
I'm more likely to just call the 3rd street raise when I'm bigger than kings which, granted, isn't very often. I do know a lot of players though that just call it here heads up and only re-raise when it's multiway. I think it's villain dependent too. If the villain is generally passive I'm re-raising 3rd but if he's aggressive I'll let him take control temporarily and try to attack him on 5th.

In general though, I hate losing bets when I'm ahead heads-up.
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08-15-2016 , 01:18 AM
I like flatting here, because if the tables were turned, now I know you have a high pocket pair in the hole and I can either release and save some bets or I could come w/ the underpair and play your hand face up which is usually one of the only time I will come with the underpair. I would be more inclined to semi bluff 3 bet with a hand that does look like a high pocket pair, giving my opponent the option to muck right away or put a bad read on me.
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08-16-2016 , 03:47 PM
Against a good player I think it's more important to maintain some deception and just call here as a default. You don't want to be in a spot where your opponent knows exactly where he is depending on if you raise or call. You won't always get that extra bet on 5th and you might give a bad free card sometimes but you'll get it more often than not.
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08-17-2016 , 12:42 PM
Seems like an easy pound it back with (KK)6 and a live (K6)6 alike. With pair of 6s if you fall high you either took the lead or added equity via another overcard. But if not you can choose to take a free one along the way, 6th is usually a good spot.
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