sorry i can't get the HH. it's 4 handed, .25 ante, .50 bring in, 3.50 complete.
4 handed. $400 effective stacks.


I get dealt A5(6), in last to act position. (Q) brings in, (7) completes, (8) raises to $12, I pot to $41, 7 calls, 8 calls.

4th street brings (7 10) (8 5) ( 6 J). (710) checks, (85) pots $124, hero?

7 plays passive, 8 is aggressive, and I think he bets like this with a paired 5 at least 80%. He frequently attempts to bluff when he's paired, or bricked 7th.

I think I played this wrong but I'd appreciate input.

man PL razz sounds so fun. What site is this on?

I was in this hand. I tried to isolate the (7) because apparently he was doing lot mistakes on 4th and 5th, talking about too loose calls and wrong betsizes.

You popped in. I was lucky that the (7) didnt shove to put me in a difficult spot being used to FL-R, yess.

Your 7th reads are useless here, the question is whether to get it in or not. I assume you are aware that the (7) nearly never gets it in on 4th based on the passive line on 3rd.

I prayed that you call, nuff said.

I thought a fold might be wrong in retrospect. I'm 31% v a258 (your best possible), and with $124 in already, and the possibility of you betting a paired 5, I thought folding might not be the best line. Thought you guys were gonna tear me a new one for folding idk

pl razz on merge btw

Is your bet on 3rd standard here? If they're known to have paint in the hole it's an easy raise but against reasonable ranges it's not like you're that much ahead.

You're right, he's not going to show up with paint here. so are you advocating just calling? then calling a smaller pot raise on 4th?

I've never played PL razz, but I don't think I'd raise third, it's a small edge. So yeah we call the 12. You may even get a little deception by calling, it depends on what PL plays like. If you flat in limit, many people will assume you have an 8 or 9 down. I prefer functional raises in razz - stealing, restealing, defense from stealing, isolating, etc. If both you're opponents are going to call, and they probably are since xx7 you describe as passive and he was opening from EP, he probably has a 3 card 7. xx8 should have a 3 card 8 100% of the time and never fold, and it's reasonably likely to be smooth or supported by the dead cards.

Having flatted 4th, I fold here. You have about 25% equity and basically no implied odds because you generally aren't going to have a winning hand until 6th and it'll usually be obvious. Unless your opponent is paired you won't be able to bluff until 6th either. You'd have to call a bet on 4th, probably call one on 5th. When someone bets the pot, if you assume the 3rd player comes along, you're risking 1 bet to win 3 (the pot, the better's bet, the callers bet) and this is basically break-even with 25% equity, but if you also assume another pot-size bet goes in on 5th (especially when you're behind) then you're actually risking (1+4) to win (1+1+1+4+4) which is risking 5 to win 11. In fact future bets will often dwarf the current bet so much that the money in the pot isn't really changing things much and you can nearly consider it as getting 2:1 odds - which you'd need 33% equity to make break even.

There's a real difference in having 25% equity in razz and 25% equity in stud - which is a lot of times in stud your equity will come from being able to make a very strong hand in 1 card, and having nothing if you miss. These hands are a lot easier to play than razz, where you'll need 2 cards to make your hand and either it'll be too obvious where you're at (and you won't get paid) or you'll make some mediocre hand and you won't know where you're at.

it doesnt matter if it might have paired him or not. on the next card you cant call unless you catch good and he bad and you dont get odds for that. so its a fold on fourth for sure.

if hero catches good and villain catches bad on the next card, won't hero be way ahead and should be potting it? While I'm asking stupid questions, why did the (xx)7T act first on 4th st??

yes hero would be ahead then and pot it. but he is only getting 2 to 1 for that to happen on 4th street.

yes he's only getting 2 to 1 immediate odds, but what about his implied odds? The effective stacks are about $400 so villain should have $240 behind that hero may win as well.

I'm probably wrong here but it seems the probability for this parlay to happen would be about 11% or 8:1 and the immediate odds are 2:1. Right now they have ~10% of their stacks in and I don't think they are remotely deep enough for the call which would put ~41% of their stacks in before rolling the dice as a longshot. Looks like there are about 15 truly bad cards for villlain and 14 truly good cards for hero with 43 cards left. There are some more optimistic ways of looking at it it I suppose but villain might have 8532 also. I think a call is bad gambling.