***OFFICIAL->HU-RaZZ-SnG=ReGz<THREAD>*** - Stud Poker

Pro Merc · 03-18-2009, 10:27 PM

I thought this might be a good idea considering the number of HU sng players we have in the stud forum.. Post hands(for analysis or fun), ask other regs about new villains(or other regs haha), talk strat and discuss the optimal way to play Razz HU SnGs...

Pro Merc · 03-18-2009, 10:56 PM

Just to start off, here is a couple hands from one I just played...

Full Tilt Poker $20 + $1 Heads Up Limit Razz Tournament - t60/t120 Limit + t10 - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (): t1898 M = 17.25
Seat 2: t1102 M = 10.02

3rd Street:
Hero: 7

K

5

Seat 2: xx xx T

Seat 2 brings in for 20, Hero completes, Seat 2 calls

4th Street: (2.333 SB) (2 players)
Hero: 7

K

5

2

Seat 2: xx xx T

4

Hero bets, Seat 2 calls

5th Street: (2.167 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 7

K

5

2

T

Seat 2: xx xx T

4

9

Hero checks, Seat 2 bets, Hero calls

6th Street: (4.167 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 7

K

5

2

T

6

Seat 2: xx xx T

4

9

A

Hero checks, Seat 2 bets, Hero calls

7th Street: (6.167 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 7

K

5

2

T

6

8

Seat 2: xx xx T

4

9

A

xx

Hero checks, Seat 2 bets, Hero raises, Seat 2 folds

Final Pot: 8.167 BB
Hero wins 8.167 BB

Couple things with this hand... It's pretty standard, but I feel like there are some different options on the later streets. Does anyone fold 5th? And on 6th when we find a nice draw, and it looks like he could have paired, does anyone go in for a raise? And lastly I felt like there was no way he was showing up with better than a smooth 9 on 7th AND I was confident he would bet it if checked to... so I obv went for the Crai, but is leading a better move here so we can re-evaluate if he raises when we lead?

Full Tilt Poker $20 + $1 Heads Up Limit Razz Tournament - t80/t160 Limit + t15 - 2 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Hero (): t1928 M = 12.85
Seat 2: t1072 M = 7.15

3rd Street:
Hero: 4

2

7

Seat 2: xx xx Q

Seat 2 brings in for 25, Hero completes, Seat 2 calls

4th Street: (2.375 SB) (2 players)
Hero: 4

2

7

K

Seat 2: xx xx Q

5

Seat 2 bets, Hero calls

5th Street: (2.188 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 4

2

7

K

8

Seat 2: xx xx Q

5

7

Seat 2 bets, Hero calls

6th Street: (4.188 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 4

2

7

K

8

J

Seat 2: xx xx Q

5

7

9

Seat 2 bets, Hero calls

7th Street: (6.188 BB) (2 players)
Hero: 4

2

7

K

8

J

A

Seat 2: xx xx Q

5

7

9

xx

Seat 2 bets, Hero raises, Seat 2 3-bets, Hero calls

Final Pot: 12.188 BB
Hero shows 4

2

7

K

8

J

A

(8,7,4,2,A)
Seat 2 shows 8

4

Q

5

7

9

3

(8,7,5,4,3)
Hero wins 12.188 BB

This was the backbreaker of the match, and I feel kinda gross looking back on it...Can you guys get away from this on 6th? The flow of the match had just started going my way, and I think I got a little caught up. I don't think it is a horrible call, but I don't see him not having a made 9-7 most of the time there. Given my play, was 7th a little wild also? I thought he would be value betting his 9-7 a lot there and figured a raise was in order. Needless to say I wasn't happy getting 3-bet.. cooler imo

oscillator · 03-19-2009, 12:37 AM

first hand youre better off betting 5th if youre planning on calling. this way you maintain the aggressor image and you may get your fold on 6th without having to get fancy with c/r.

2nd hand someone with better math can do. its prob correct to call down, but i prefer to fold under the assumption that im generally going to be bet into in this spot on 6th and 7th and im not very good at folding 7ths when ive called 6ths. if i know villain will always check a 9 and ten but bet his 8s and better along with air id call 6th for sure. i like your 7th but those keep backfiring on me lately

iStackBooks · 03-19-2009, 05:47 AM

I agree with the Osc on hand #1. You can either check/fold or bet. Check/call is your worst possible option. I prefer to just give up on this in general but if your opponent is capable of folding 6th then it is okay to continue. I'm not raising this river very often.

On hand #2 I like a fold on 6th. Given his 5th street action he should always have a 97 here, and you just don't have the odds to call down especially when you factor in the reverse implied odds and all of this. Like Osc, this is all sort of intuitive for me and I'm not 100% sure on the raw math.

perdanny · 03-19-2009, 10:15 AM

I used to play 2$ hu sngs on FTP, moved to stud 8 and im now playing 5$ sngs, but found out that someone who sccamed me for 70$ (from the internet forum, transfered 5$ to my PS account) so i played 11 or 12 2$ razz hu sngs and won them all.
Merlin707, reseste and mmmccckkk are my fav regs in those games.

SGspecial · 03-19-2009, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iStackBooks

On hand #2 I like a fold on 6th. Given his 5th street action he should always have a 97 here, and you just don't have the odds to call down especially when you factor in the reverse implied odds and all of this. Like Osc, this is all sort of intuitive for me and I'm not 100% sure on the raw math.

Don't you think a 5 is in his range?

iStackBooks · 03-20-2009, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SGspecial

Don't you think a 5 is in his range?

Yes, significantly so if we are looking at just 3rd street. By the time he bets 4th and 5th I think we can discount it, for the most part. If we know that he'll keep pounding away even when he pairs in spots like this then it gets trickier.

SGspecial · 03-20-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iStackBooks

Yes, significantly so if we are looking at just 3rd street. By the time he bets 4th and 5th I think we can discount it, for the most part. If we know that he'll keep pounding away even when he pairs in spots like this then it's an instacall.

When pairing the 5, 4th st is an autobet for most players but many would slow down on 5th. That's where knowing your opponent well will help you exploit him (and not get exploited yourself), and by level 4 of a HU SNG I think a smart razz player like OP should have a decent read on the villain.

kablooey · 03-20-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Merc

I thought this might be a good idea considering the number of HU sng players we have in the stud forum.. Post hands(for analysis or fun), ask other regs about new villains(or other regs haha), talk strat and discuss the optimal way to play Razz HU SnGs...

There are Razz HU SNG regs?

10_kyle_10 · 03-20-2009, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kablooey

There are Razz HU SNG regs?

Is this level? Check out Sharkscope Stud HU leaderboards...Alot of them are razz heads

camz2895 · 03-20-2009, 09:18 PM

razitup is fkn horrible; all i have to say; he runs like absolute god vs me everytime he sticks it in bad

Pro Merc · 03-21-2009, 12:25 AM

Where to start, where to start?! Lots of good ideas regarding those 2 hands, and I'm happy to see that...

For hand 1, you guys advocated just leading out to keep control of the hand... My thought process was something like this: Based on my 3rd street complete, my range is ATC as I'm stealing there no matter what, and he was aware of that... There was no reason that he shouldn't put me on at least 1 brick in the hole and figure himself ahead on 5th. So by leading out, I was exposing myself to get raised and contribute a lot more chips to the pot than I would have wanted to. But I can deff see the benefits of leading there, besides maintaining control of the hand, maybe I can convince him, I do in fact have a real hand, and it would be best if he went away. Looking back, I still think its pretty close, but I might lead out vs looking weak by c/cing.

Stack I agree with you that he should be showing up with a decent 9-7 all day here in hand 2, and I should probably find somewhere to muck, I just never found it though ... As it was, I got lucky, nothing wrong with that right!?

Quote:

There are Razz HU SNG regs?

chyea

Quote:

razitup is fkn horrible; all i have to say; he runs like absolute god vs me everytime he sticks it in bad

I feel your pain

... But I've given my $.02 regarding Razitup on this forum already... So, no comment!

Quote:

Is this level? Check out Sharkscope Stud HU leaderboards...Alot of them are razz heads

wtf is a razz head

iStackBooks · 03-21-2009, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pro Merc

So by leading out, I was exposing myself to get raised and contribute a lot more chips to the pot than I would have wanted to.

I don't think raising is necessarily the worst thing ever on his part, but it will rarely happen. Almost never, unless you have some sort of specific read.

An important concept: in spots like this, if betting out will on average cost you the same as check calling (he will sometimes raise), then you should bet out if you want to continue with the hand, and c/f otherwise.

The ability to rep a line is just too important. By check/calling you are giving up your leverage and most of your fold equity later in the hand, and gaining virtually nothing in return.

perdanny · 03-21-2009, 07:31 AM

Pro Merc i saw you play at PS also, which site do you think have softer games and better stracture?
I can say that the 2$ games are much more softer in PS. FTP got good 2$ regs that can be profitble in higher BI, but im not sure how soft the higher BI on PS.

oscillator · 03-21-2009, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iStackBooks

I don't think raising is necessarily the worst thing ever on his part, but it will rarely happen. Almost never, unless you have some sort of specific read.

An important concept: in spots like this, if betting out will on average cost you the same as check calling (he will sometimes raise), then you should bet out if you want to continue with the hand, and c/f otherwise.

The ability to rep a line is just too important. By check/calling you are giving up your leverage and most of your fold equity later in the hand, and gaining virtually nothing in return.

agree with this. there are like 2 people i know off hand that will raise you here when they have a 9 or 8 on 5th defending. your worry would be valid if they hit really small, but as books said youd be c/f anyhow.