6 handed. $2 button ante. Bring in is $1 minimum.

Player A just lost a big pot and is crippled down to $10. Before the deal he throws his $10 in the middle and announces "I'm all in blind". The table decided that his $10 bet will just be treated as the bring in. He has a T showing.

I'm first to act with 8 up and 52 down. I call.

With a 6 showing Player B on my immediate right calls also. He's a little loose.

The next two players fold a T and a K.

Player C has a Q showing and shoves for $110.

Player C is decent at FL Razz, but this is the first time we've played NL. I have about $160. Player B has about $130. Action is on me, and I have no clue what's going on.

I don't even see how this is a question. The guy with the 6 doesn't have a better hand than you, cause he is always raising the 8 up and you also said he's a little loose. So, I don't worry about him calling.

Against the Q, give him credit for 2 cards 8 or lower and...
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
852 70.94% 425,371 524
8-8-Q 29.06% 174,105 524

Seems like an easy shove for you in this spot. Folding to a Queen door when you're holding (52)8 would be super weak-tight, and if you call, there's not enough stack left behind to allow any real poker past 3rd street anyway. Just get it all in there and hope that Player B folds. (I'm pretty sure you're still significantly +EV to shove if he calls, but you're more +EV if he folds.)

Where do I find an equity calculator for non-holdem games?

ProPokertools.com

Easy shove in a cash game

I would shove. You're never an underdog

Where did you find NL razz game?

umm...why am i the first to ask wtf did you find a NL razz game?

You're probably the first to ask because it's obvious that it was a home/live game.

The guy who shoves is either clueless or doesn't like $ very much

or

the integrity of the game is in question


I'd lean choice (c) w/ no other knowledge. Sounds like a nice "home game" cold deck set up.

That or it's some combination of (a) and (b) obviously and a great, great, great, great, great game.

The only guy who was really comfortable with NL Razz already folded and Player C figured no one else would want to "flip" for stacks in razz so he would go HU against the allin player with dead money.

Results: I called, the 6 folded.

I held.


Thanks everyone! I literally have never thought about razz and didn't know if this was a 52/48 situation or what.

Oh really? A live game you say? Nah would have never thought that judging from the lack of HH and his physical description of the action.

You see whether it was a home game or an actual "live" game makes all the difference and you can't just lump them together the way you did.

Home game.

thx; I'd like to get in on that game

Yeah, understood. Razz novices often don't understand just how much a single brick can hurt a starting hand. They think that having 2-Ace in the hole is somehow the equivalent of having A-K in hold'em, or something like that.

Here's one interesting fact worth remembering: in the absence of any dead cards to sway the odds, J-9-7 is a slight favorite (50.37% equity) against Q-2-A. That's how much having a Queen brick in your hand hurts your chances -- a guy who has a fairly crappy hand, that most players would toss except when stealing, is actually a slight favorite over Q-2-A. The deuce and the Ace look pretty sexy, but the Queen really penalizes the hand's equity.

I meant live as in real life, not online. Didn't mean casino.

Please allow me to translate this hand. I'm not trying to be facetious here, but rather provide some clarity for those new to razz.

Let's imagine that we are playing in a NL holdem home game, we have KK and limp behind the all in players dead $10 wager, the player to our left limps behind as well for $10 (he plays any two cards). The guy on the button accidentally flips over the 2c as he announces "I'm all in". Action is folded around to us, what should we do?

Same thing, except KK is a slightly better favorite vs 22 than 852 is vs A2Q

Very well said.

Am I the only one that doesn't hate the Q all-in?

Both you and the 6 look very weak just calling. In FL Razz it's still a snapfold, because the Q up will give you a big strategic disadvantage. In NL you don't have this problem.

Also: why treat the blind AI as the bringin? Seems like angle-shooting to me unless he proposed it himself.

did u read any of the other 16 posts itt?

Seemed like a good idea at the time?

I guess it solves the action-out-of-turn problem, but creates other problems of its own. Maybe no one wanted to take his $10 out of the pot and give him a chance to think better of it.

Are you in the southern hemisphere? Do games flow backwards just like the toilet water?

Typo, sorry.

Yes, why?

I don't understand how this is a problem. Even if acting out of turn is not according to the rules, since the $10-guy is the only one disadvantaged, why would anyone mind. And by making him the BI you basically disadvantage the guy even more and violate another - more important - rule.

because it's a terrible "bluff" in the sense that anybody who remotely "has it" knows he is a huge favorite even if they think he has what he's saying he has, A2Q.

It'd be almost like a guy showing you two Kings pre in nlhe, you exposing a nine, and saying I ship. The guy knows he has to be in great shape no matter what your other card(s) is.

It's also why I was expecting a cold deck in a home game. Luckily for op it was just a spot where villain was really, really, really, really a big fish in nl razz.

LMAO... reasoning skills ftw