According to Mason Malmuth, the creator of Two Plus Two as we know it, the solution to attract new players is to bring back games with more multi-way pots.

He says and I quote: "(...) So one of the ways to fix that is to bring back more Limit Hold’em, where you tend to get more multi-way pots, and games like seven-card stud.”

So what do you think? Will seven-card stud be the game of the future or is just for old people?

You can see the full interview with video here.

No, seven card stud will not be the game of the future

No limit game will become the game if the future

Why cannot Rusty?

Will become? No Limit is the game of the present.

No one wants seven card stud to be the game of the future. I don't know of any cases where poker has moved backwards to bring great resurgance to an essentially dead game. Mixed games is about as good as you're gonna get.

He is saying that the game of the future will not be a limit game.

It reads as if MM is speaking primarily about online which I'll never play again bec of the NVG threads regarding the software tools that I don't want to learn to use. Maybe LHE makes some kind of comeback but it's going to be tough. Arizona has spread limit which is boring as hell and I get to play 1-2 NL when I go to LV and it's even worse. The problem, imo, is that players are happy w/ $3/orbit in blinds, can sit there all day for cheap playing very tight, and that game's not going away in my lifetime.

When you consider that limit versions of games are what are played in Bobby's and Ivey's Room these days, there is a case you could make that a trend could take us that way ...

I actually talked with Mike Caro not long ago, and I remember asking him the very same question and he told me:

"I would think that there will be a resurgence of limit poker, rather than no-limit. But the process may take many years. Look for seven-card stud to regain popularity, but hold 'em will continue to be strong. So will Omaha hi-lo and, maybe, stud hi-lo (...)"

If you look at the higher stakes online, you see Triple Draw, Badugi (new players every day), Omaha hi-lo, Limit Hold'em. You don't see much Stud because people don't trust those games, but i also think Limit poker will get more players. We are all talking about cash games, right? A week ago Patrick Antonious said Omaha and Hold'em are unplayable online, is all based on statistics and tracking softwares.

Yeah i didn't word my original comment well lol and even if limit games are favoured in bobbys room etc it could never blow up as the fun factor is hugely less for rec players than NLH and the exposure on these games is next to 0. PLO is the only game that has potential to grow massively in my opinion

I wouldn't be too sure of that. Last year some players organized a 20-40 Omaha HiLo/Stud8 game and it's been getting 2 tables/day ever since. I thought the game might last 2 weeks. That game seems to have caused a mini 6-12 0E that goes everyday but killed off the 8-16 08.

You never know what might happen. Maybe some players will try to get a 20-40 mix version of the 40-80 mix w/ it's wide variety of games even though the 40 players will probably fight it tooth and nail.

But I'll repeat: I expected live NLHE to die off a long time ago and it hasn't and the reason, much to my surprise, is that even though there's hardly any action at the 1-2 level it apparently makes them happy. Btw, I've tipped the ENTIRE pot twice in 1-2 games just to say that I did. $3 whole dollars after my open to $10 which I took back. I will only go so far for a goof.

Hmmmm, might have been $2 after the BBJ drop. Next time I'll add a dollar.

Limit poker is fun and simple and the structures work in a bunch of different games. People who like poker generally appreciate that about it, and that is why mixed games are usually pretty durable. I think individual limit games will always have small hardcore player pools but wherever mixed limit games get off the ground they seem to endure.

The work done offline and using in-game software makes online big bet poker a very technical game now, and finding edges is going to be incredibly difficult. Less-studied limit games, particularly stud, stud8 and draw games will be attacked by this technological progression more slowly, and that lag will create an opportunity to beat some people in the meantime.

This might not be correct. The skill gap in NL is too high, the games are dying in the live US settings. The LHE games are doing just fine.

I just checked Bravo. 31 tables running at Foxwoods right now. 15 are limit games. Average stakes between 5-10 and 10-20.

pretty much.

mason has been harping on this idea for a while now. specifically he's suggesting that while NL tournaments was a great way to get recreational players into the game, NL table games are killing off those same rec players. the skilled players were able to chew up the fish very quickly and they're not coming back. compare that to a limit game where bad player lose, but not at as fast of a rate, therefore giving them the opportunity to have more ups and downs (most importantly, the ups that will make them think that they are a winning player) while the better players are still able to make a profit over the long term.

that being said, i don't see how Stud makes some type of giant comeback. sure, you have medium/high stakes mix games that feature stud, but the days of multiple tables of Stud (or Limit Holdem) on a daily basis doesn't look to be coming back any time soon.

this is what i don't understand. the few times i've played NL at the casino (while waiting for a seat in a limit game) every pot has been that way. fold fold fold fold raise to 3XBB fold fold fold fold.

this is why i don't see stud being spread too often. not because it isn't a great game. but instead, because of the majority of the people in the poker room would prefer to show up with a hoodie, sunglasses and earbuds and pass three dollars around for a few hours. to quote Gene Wilder in Blazing Saddles: "you know...morons"

I have a 1-2 NL story from The Orleans where I stay w/ mom bec it's small enough for her to walk it and we get 6 room nights for $40.

It was late at night and the BBJ was huge, the room packed. IDK but I think everybody in the room gets something if it hits, could be wrong. Anyway there's a woman on my direct left at the 1-2 NL and she'd limp for the $2 then have to fold to a raise. This went on for an hour when she finally exclaimed 'I REALLY want to play some of these hands!' So I said 'Why don't you play the 4-8 LHE where you can play them all and, btw, it's easier to hit the BBJ?' and she answered 'I'm not going to play LHE where they suck out on you every time!' lol, that's what limit is up against.

Pre-Moneymaker, I never thought I'd see another no-limit hold 'em over the 1-2 level, it was dead and all the NLHE players were on Social Security.

I don't think no limit has much to offer as a format. It's only advantage is that it is simple, so it might remain for small stakes games. I think spread limit is a great format, but fixed limit is so much easier to deal and explain in a casino. I assume that the big games will return to pot limit -- both hold 'em and omaha. I am always wrong with these predictions.

The thing about hold 'em is that it is so easy to explain, so easy to deal, and so fast to rake.

I don't see a reason for stud to make a comeback unless adjustments are made with the structure. Right now there are two basic groups of stud players: the new guys coming from mix games who prefer higher antes, and the old guys who want low antes. If you've ever seen them try to start a table using players from both groups, it can be pretty funny. There are also *real* old guys who played in the 70s with high antes, but most of them are dead.

Maybe a six-card format will become popular with four betting rounds. Or maybe they could play with blinds -- starting with 1.5 small bets might be a useful compromise.

no, but old people will still be playing stud in the future

In the future they are dead folk.

I see stud people.

LOL

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Stud can never be the game of the future. It is too technical and complex to ever catch on.

If we are talking in general, tournament poker is the "game" of the future.

Maybe online but certainly not in B&M's.

I love when people over 50 think they can predict the future. It's hard enough for people who'll be a part of the future to do it...

I think is easier for a fifteen to predict the future... did not understood the point.