This looks a little more realistic...

ProPokerTools Stud Hi/Lo Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

dead cards: KJT

Hand	Pot equity	Scoops	Wins Hi	Ties Hi	Wins Lo	Ties Lo
$L$L!(27, 28, 38, 22-33), 99-kk, $L$N:ss | 4s	33.26%	99,372	156,412	503	187,956	1,111
$L$L!(27, 28, 38, 48, 22-55, aa, dd), $L$N:dd | 5d	33.54%	100,547	153,399	500	196,498	1,112
a99	33.20%	96,895	289,673	29	15,266	197

Unless I'm doing it wrong both villain's ranges are described as two low cards (could be a pair, could be trips, could be disconnected low cards, could be a rundown), any pair or any 3-flush.

so your telling me villain 1 is going to raise a razz hand, as well as 22-33 and villain 2 is going to call with 22-44, as well as an even worse razz hand.

The thing about this thread is everyone is assigning villains a very liberal and generic range in probably a highly raked game. For all I know, villains in this game have a limping and a reraising range. Also a few high hands are dead, which is very helpful to low hands.

This game gets raked at $4 + $2 BBJ and the players are bad and usually passive on 3rd. IDK how to use the tools very well but I'm still surprised that the 9's do that well, I expected worse. It's not my style but if you don't mind taking the swings then w/e, imo. I wait for a better spot.


ETA: My copy of Ray Zee's book is buried around here somewhere so I looked online and found this on DC:

https://www.deucescracked.com/forums...Starting-Hands

5. The best high hand on board (Kd Kc Ah) or (Kd Kc 9d)
a. A high hand going against multiple players must be very live and the absolute high to have any value.

9's, bleh.

such a classic stud forum thread. I've missed these.

Late to this party, found the thread by accident.
This actually looks completely standard to me. The most doubt lies in the decision to play the hand at all, on third street, but (now that the high cards have folded) we have the best high hand, with an ace kicker, the pot is going to be multiway (reducing the risk of getting freerolled head-up), and we're one step away from closing the action. I would love this hand a lot less if the bring-in reraised, and it would help a lot if I had a read that they completed their own bring-in with better hands.

What can we do but call on fourth street? (Well, we can fold, but if we're folding fourth we should be folding third.) Our position is such that raising makes it easier for the passenger who bricked to fold as they should anyway. I would much rather they made a bad call and put a little bit more money in the pot to be chopped up. Getting three-bet by the initial raiser who caught good would be disastrous. I think the people advocating a fourth-street raise are dead wrong.

Peeling fifth seems fine, especially since we've picked up a fairly smooth backdoor low draw.

We scoop a lot less if we fail to get it HU on Fourth and it's rare the low board will reraise if we do get it HU. I think that's a bigger consideration that trying to eke out a fraction of a bet from a bricked three-low who now has equity against our high if he stays. It would be great if he folds (A8)5Q or (86)5Q vs our hand.

If the bricked hand calls two and the low board reraises we flat and we're still in fine shape. If the next street breaks in our favor we could be in a fantastic spot in a big pot.

I think this is a perfectly fine call on third as long as we play a 9 high flush draw identically, and I don't think anyone's folding that.

Fourth is actually a very bad card for us to catch (no pair draw, we can't rep flush draws) but whatever it's still a peel. Definitely not a raise because whenever v1 has anything we're getting 3 bet ~always. e: I don't think getting it HU is realistic and I also think when we raise we play face up the rest of the hand, both of which add to this.

Rest looks standard. This is probably the worst hand that should be in your calling range on third but it's still pretty +EV if only for the win with a 9 up tilt factor.

How is our hand not already face up when we have a Nine and an offsuit Four? It's totally worth it to fold out the bricked low here. I mean, are you or is any competent player taking two to the face in jeopardy here?

It just got classicer

Its a 6/12 game, you, adanthar, and most competent players are not playing.

I guess that was a poor word choice; I meant "we never have these big long threads anymore, but when we do, they always go exactly like this."

People are definitely overestimating how often 45 three bets here.

I did it tonight! Ended up HU on 6th and IDK HOW the guy w/ high cards called me showing 6-5-4-2 w/ 3's. I had the str8 w/ 4 s and he c/c'd the river. I flipped my hand, saw the As and said 'I have an everything!'

Game was not playing as multiway as I like but it's still good even the 0/8 rounds.