In live stud 5-10 what do u figure is a good win rate? I know it is gonna depend on how good the player is but u guys think u can average $20 per hour ? $30? Are these hourly possible?
Thanks

Limit poker win rates are usually dependent on the quality of your opponents. Unless you play O8 in which case it's all bingo!

Could the best player in the room make $30/hr at 5/10 stud? It's possible if the rake isn't crazy high and if the other players are awful, drunk, or both. But that's a lot of ifs.

Not enough to quit your day job

I hate playing 5-10 stud. You cannot protect your high pairs on 3rd by raising the bring in or limpers from $2 to $5. I guess it is correct to play or gamble until 5th street with the underpair. Maybe not correct, but it just seems like it. In a full ring game the pot on third with the ante and bring in totals $6, so stealing for $5 is still a good proposition, but almost never works especially when the bi or a limper only has to call $3 more dollars to see how their hand develops until 5th. My experience has shown me that 5-10 stud benefits the bad player, while 20-40 stud is the real game where if a bad player wants to put an additional $17 in to come with gappers and unders they are by far getting the worst of it. Anyone else have any comments about this?

Also, I theorize that it costs about $22.50 per hour to play 5-10 stud. The dealer gets out around 25 hands per hour at .50 cents ante, plus we are the bring in around 5 times per hour. These are conservative estimates, agree? So we have to compensate for that, as well as, try and win $40-$50 on top. I don't like my chances in this game. The loose players are actually playing correct by gambling up front in this game, and defending.

With this theory previously stated these are the costs per hour to play the following stud limits.
1-5 stud = 17.50 per hour, to steal the antes and bring in costs $6 for $5
5-10 stud = 22.50 per hour, to steal the antes and bring in costs $5 for $6
10-20 stud = 40 per hour, to steal the antes and bring in costs $10 for $11
15-30 stud = 75 per hour, to steal the antes and bring in costs $15 for $21
20-40 stud = 100 per hour, to steal the antes and bring in costs $20 for $29
75-150 stud = 245 per hour, to steal the antes and bring in costs $75 for $145

What kind of nit thinks of antes and bringins as a "cost"

Based on work I did years ago, a good win rate for $5-$10 stud woulf be about $10 an hour.

Best wishes,
Mason

Thanks for the response Mason. I know you have beaucoup hours logged at stud hi. Is there a stud hi limit that you prefer in regards to ante, bring in, and steal to pot ratio on third? Or just one that fits your style and bankroll?

I'm glad you're trying to reason this stuff out but watch out for certain pitfalls as you hunt around for answers. (hint: rusty already pointed one out). Another one is getting hung up on the idea that your opponents have to make mistakes for you to make a profit (i.e. make +EV plays). While it's true that every time they make a mistake (in a HU pot) you reap the theoretic rewards, the converse is NOT TRUE. They can make plays that are correct (+EV) for themselves but your play can also be +EV. This is because the antes that you fret over mean there is something in the pot to win in addition to any money the villain puts in. Now he may have correct odds to call even though you have a +EV bet.

I think Ray Zee once expressed the opinion that an ante of 20% of the lowest limit made for the best balance overall in a vacuum. Please no flames if I did not recall correctly

But for anyone the best structure for someone depends slot on the style and ability of the individual and the type of mistakes that his opponents makes

That may be true in a vacuum, but it isn't helpful in terms of long term profitability if we have to play the same way as our opponents do when the hands are reversed.

Well I think that tight aggressive exploitative play is the right way to play stud. And I totally agree w/ SGSpecial about the weaker players ARE getting the right odds to call in a lot of scenarios, which again makes me timid about getting into those games. You nailed it! But the bad players still don't know that they are making marginal calls w some ev, which in turn gives them an edge. The game structure helps the bad players. Wow what a frustrating game sometimes. Ill never quit

Hi St. Boston:

I've played virtually no stud in years and always played more limit hold 'em. As for what stud limit is best, it just varies. But it always seemed that there was a gap in games between $20-$40 and $75-$150. This is games like $30-$60 did go on occasion, but they would never last.

Best wishes,
Mason

Hi ScotchOnDaRocks:

The 20 percent was the ante for $75-$150 which seemed to work well while games that had a higher ante structure were never very successful. However, smaller stud games, where the best players were not as skilled as the best players at the $75-$150 had a smaller ante structure and this seemed right for most of those games.

Best wishes,
Mason

There are many spots in stud where because of the size of the pot compared to the size of the bet it becomes correct to chase. However, poor players make plenty of errors, especially on third and fifth street.

Best wishes,
Mason

Yeah, if you make the same +EV calls that they do when you're behind then you're not gaining an edge on them. If you don't make some of those +EV calls because you underestimate your pot odds, then you give back some of that edge. If your opponents make mistakes like chasing too light or too long then you get some of that edge back again.

But make no mistake about it: high ante games make calling light less of a mistake, if it's one at all. On the other hand, you can try to hone your poker skills in big multiway pots by inducing one villain to help you put other villains in the middle of a raise war. If your opponents don't do that, then advantage you!

Great discussion!