hello, what is the average winning rate/hour for RAZZ?

1BB?

Where? What stakes? Live or online? How many hands are in an hour?

I did a foray into play chips once and was winning at something like 20bb/100.

not sustainable

Actually I think it probably is. I played more hands than you probably suspect, something like 20k hands. This is not a lot of hands but when the ratio between win rate and stdev improves, you need a lot less hands to know. The reason it's so high is that it's mostly HU and 3 way action, and most opponents will raise every time it's their turn and never fold.

The average winning rate for players in any game is negative the amount of the rake.

Of course this knowledge is not helpful, the question is not specific enough to have a meaningful answer.

No money in play chip razz, despite villains' best efforts

depends on the co-pay your health insurance plan requires.

from my limited research, i've read that 3 BB/100 hands is a decent sustainable winrate for razz.

Interesting. From this, can we deduce that the average losing rate is ~ - 3 BB/100? With rake it's not a zero sum game, but do we dun the winners or the losers for the grab?

Depends on what percentage win - it doesn't need to be 50/50.

If we take the old benchmark of 9 losing players for every wining one, then the average loser average would be .33 BB/100. Seems off. I'm not sure that would even fade the rake.

you realize the winning player's winrate is the post-rake profit, right? To net 3 BB/100 you'd have to win somewhere between 6 & 10 BB/100 before the rake.

Right. That is how the rake is traditionally allocated. But rake, in reality, is paid by the winner of the pot, who most often is not a winning player.

So if we play 100 hands at a 10-handed razz table (I know, I know, razz tables are not 10 handed) that has one winning player and nine losing ones, after the 100 hands the winner has an additional 3 BBs, and the house has taken, 50 BBs (at .5 BB a hand (just pulling a number out of my ... out of the air)), then the 9 losers have to pay the 53 BB deficit and lose 53/9 = 5.9 BB/100 apiece.

That's just what the losers have to lose to make the books balance. Winners, especially newbies, like to imagine that their *real* win rate is actually 53 BB/100 minus rake, but that's clearly not the case.

Tommy Angelo has addressed this and I believe he just estimates the number of pots a winner drags and uses that number to estimate the winner's portion of the rake, a method that is more realistic and still ends up being enormous.