I would like to hear some comments about this example hand I reported in my book on razz. Actually I think it is a stupid basic spot and I'm ashamed to post here...

It's a $10-$20 razz cash game. Seat 7 is a very tight opponent, hero and opp. 4 images are neutral.

On 3rd street:

Opp 1 (x-x)Q bring-in
Opp 2 (x-x)T fold
Opp 3 (x-x)7 fold
Opp 4 (x-x)6 complete - call
Hero (7-A)6 raise - call
Opp 6 (x-x)A fold
Opp 7 (x-x)A reraise
Opp 8 (x-x)5 fold

4th street

Opp 4 (x-x)6-J call
Hero (7-A)6-4 ?
Opp 7 (x-x)A-2 bet

1) Are there reasons for hero to reraise again the 3rd street?
2) What's the best course of action for hero on 4th street?

Thanks for any reply!
Later I post my suggestions wrote in the book...and I hope for the best..

Marco

1. no
2. raise

What Parallax said, and it isn't even close, imo and reads are not that relevant.

1.yes

1 You can raise Third again if you like but it will dramatically increase variance without increasing EV that much. Your hand is stronger than it appears because the dead cards favor you, which is why raising can show a profit, but if you bloat the pot when the absolute numerical strength of your hand is capped or apparent you set yourself up to get played off your hand later if the boards run out bad. On balance I wouldn't raise.

2 Not raising Fourth is a serious mistake. Once the Jack calls you can be pretty sure he'll call again unless it's two bets back to him (and he might call there too) while he's a huge underdog to both you and the other smooth hand. You might be in second place but it doesn't matter because you're still making money for every bet the Jack puts in the pot. If he folds, that's also fine because you're never going to be a significant dog to the other hand. Also, if you're in front you'd like to know that and the other Ace may disclose something by his reaction to your raise.

I hate that raise on 3d. It mostly bloats a pot when you have no equity edge. The usual result is talking yourself into doing something ridiculous later because of the "big pot."

4th is a mandatory 100% all the time raise. You have to get the dumb guy to pay your way to later streets.

after running ppt im surprised we have that bad equity;it can still be quite deceptive to put another bet in

Raise third is standard - it helps define ranges, and possibly isolates. Another raise would be spewish, and would help people define your hand more

What elec said on 4th. If you were first to act somehow you would be check raising.

Good luck with the book.

First raise is standard, but talking about reraising, with a medium door card that caps your range it's not deceptive at all.

if we cap villain will read our range as (6-6-6) or not ?i think this is deceptive

Phrased differently, when an Ace reraises and you four-bet opponents likely put you on an Ace and another good card. Which is precisely what you have. If your hand was worse you could add value by building some fold equity in case your board breaks perfectly, if your hand was better you could raise for pure value, but with your range capped at no better than a Six draw you're going to be playing your hand almost completely exposed.

I remember Matt Hawrilenko (Hoss_TBF) saying a few years back that he never 4-bet preflop in HU LHE, which kind of blew my mind at that time. Obviously the thinking was that his range is disguised on later streets and let him maximize equity.

It seems like a really simple concept now, but back then no one else was doing it.

was he referring to multiway pots as well as HU? That can make a difference. In this case, there are a lot of smart players making good arguments for either flatting or capping 3rd. The question about 4th st is so AINEC that I'm not sure why it's included in the same example.

If the choice was to call or 3 bet it'd be a clear 3b, but a call vs. 4 bet decision is pretty marginal - your reraise already defined your hand as 'something good' and a cap is just going to announce you have an ace down to a decent hand reader.

Hi and thanks for the replies!!! (And Ty oscillator!)

I report in indecent english a summary of what written in the book about this hand (the book is in italian language).

"In this hand we (hero) choose to reraise the 3rd street for the great "duplication effect"; as we already have seen in the previous chapters, we don't have a lot of valid points to cap the bet.
On 4th street there are a lot of reasons to raise:

1) On 3rd street given the action and the style of the very tight player, we could safely assume he has a very good starting hand, likely a 5 low or better starting hand (maybe a smooth 6 low). If he has a 5 low or better hand, that deuce could have paired his holding over 40% of the time. Naturally he might check either a very good low draw (going for a check-raise) or a paired hand, but usually a reraising 3rd street player likes to bet out: Razz players having the lead love to bet.

2) Despite the possible real strenght of his hand, raising is a good move to force the third player to put extra bets in a bad situation since he is facing two threatening boards. And there is the possibility he's going to fold.

3) Our board 6-4 is a quality board and is supporting our 3rd street action and this 4th street raise".


I'd like to post more example hands, this time less straightforward...but my english is really awful..

Thanks to everyone!!

marco