Completing the bring in Stud Hi - Stud Poker

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Completing the bring in Stud Hi

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12-16-2015 , 12:19 PM

enakoma

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 7

I am just wondering which type of situations we should complete instead of posting the bring in. I have read 7CSFAP and it has helped my game a lot, but betting instead of posting the bring in is not something which seems to be covered in the book.

Can anyone suggest situations where betting may be better than simply posting the bring in? When I am low I bring it in 100% of the time. I never complete. I would complete from all other positions with a hand I intend to play, but never complete from the bring in with the exact same hand. Surely there are situations where completing from the bring in position with hands like (AA)2 (KK)2 etc is something to consider.

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12-16-2015 , 03:44 PM

Joe Tall

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,925

Limp-reraising is fun, also calling for deception is really fun. Have fun.

And welcome to the forums!

-Joe

Last edited by Joe Tall; 12-16-2015 at 03:54 PM.

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12-16-2015 , 04:32 PM

ScotchOnDaRocks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,200

Except for rare tournament situations I would never complete the bringin. With the lowest card you have a weak distribution so I want to keep buried pairs in there when I choose to defend. You don't want to discourage K43 off suit from raising your deuce bringin when you have buried aces

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12-16-2015 , 05:40 PM

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Boy, do I ever miss Stud games.

Anyway, when I used to play, maybe the low card would bring it in for a full bet 1% of the time and in the old time NYC clubs there were very good Stud players. Bringing it in for a full bet is so rare everybody goes on alert unless V is a bad action player. I don't think that I ever did it.

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12-16-2015 , 06:10 PM

Joe Tall

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Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,925

All that being said, there are times in HU or 3-handed play where it should be considered given the opponents.

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12-16-2015 , 07:15 PM

electrical

Loaded for bear

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,280

You never say never in this game. But...

In a cash game, anything other than HU, you can safely say bringing in full is never the best option. There have been other discussions of it here and you should search for them, but the short version is that bringing in full stops steals (you get no value for your legitimate hands) and costs the most when you are beat because you will get raised by a range your hand usually doesn't do well against.

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12-16-2015 , 07:58 PM

lstream

old hand

Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,336

Quote:

Originally Posted by Howard Beale

Boy, do I ever miss Stud games.

You need to treat yourself and head off to Foxwoods. The games are awesome. Spent part of last weekend there. Thinking of leaving the wife and throwing the rest of my life away to spend more time there

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12-16-2015 , 08:05 PM

ScotchOnDaRocks

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 7,200

Games in AC are good too. I think the bring in completes it maybe once every 50-100 hours. No exaggeration. It's like walking into a bar, the record stops, and everyone looks at the person who did it. They always assume someone has a high pair in the hole, which is typically a good assumption.

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12-16-2015 , 09:54 PM

Howard Beale

Formerly red

Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 22,190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tall

All that being said, there are times in HU or 3-handed play where it should be considered given the opponents.

DO I HAVE TO THINK OF EVERYTHING?

Spoiler:

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Originally Posted by lstream

For now I take care of mom, maybe someday. I wonder how many hours I need to get un-rusty.

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12-17-2015 , 07:36 AM

#10

enakoma

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 7

Thanks for the replies.

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Originally Posted by electrical

You never say never in this game. But...

This is exactly why I asked the question. Since 7 card stud is a very situational game my thinking is it can't be correct to automatically do something 100% of the time.

However, as some have said bringing in for a full bet will stop ante stealing. So am I right in thinking that there is very little to be gained if anything against a full table?

Joe Tall said it could be considered in heads up or 3 handed play. What things do we need to consider if we were to bring in for a full bet while playing HU/3 handed.

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12-17-2015 , 05:49 PM

#11

electrical

Loaded for bear

Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 4,280

If your opponents play well, you should still not be bringing in full 2- or 3- handed. Your starting hand remains opaque if you never bring in full, and you give your opponents nothing to exploit.

If your opponents fold to opens too much then sometimes you'll have a shot when your doors are the same or villains have duplicated doors only slightly better than yours. Say you have 8 v 9 and 9 or Q v Q and Q. This is rare and is an exploit, not a strategy.

In a tournament situation you may be short-stacked and have something like (88)5 and be able to get all-in with excellent odds if you complete and somebody isolates you.

That's about it.

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12-17-2015 , 06:34 PM

#12

Joe Tall

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Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,925

Quote:

Originally Posted by electrical

This^^^

I'd like to add 2/3 handed when playing over-aggro stealers or someone who is tilting, bringing in full with hands better than their range becomes an excellent idea (esp HU vs someone losing their ****, only tilts them more.) Note: these are rare cases.

Another note about 2/3 handed, if your opponents play well, and you are playing for money (not fun), don't play.

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12-21-2015 , 12:11 PM

#13

Kurn, son of Mogh

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Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,232

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstream

5/10 & 10/20 stud running pretty regular at Twin River if you're coming down from the north.

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12-23-2015 , 01:33 AM

#14

Joe Tall

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 16,925

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurn, son of Mogh

5/10 & 10/20 stud running pretty regular at Twin River if you're coming down from the north.

Poker room at Lincoln Park?

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12-23-2015 , 09:27 AM

#15

Kurn, son of Mogh

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2002 Posts: 16,232

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tall

Poker room at Lincoln Park?

http://www.twinriver.com

You've been out west too long, Joe. They upgraded the slot parlor at the old dog track. In 2007 it was still all slots but the physical plant was a huge upgrade (and expansion) - looked like a real casino. Table games were added a couple of years ago and a 16 table poker room opened on 12/1 of this year.

No more live dogs, but still a race book.

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01-05-2016 , 06:09 AM

#16

Ray Zee

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 17,920

there are a few you can dream up. think about the extremes and then bring it in closer.

like suppose you have a six up and 99 in the hole. the upcards are 8888,777,

you may want to raise so no one comes in and catches an over card for the small bet.

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01-15-2016 , 02:15 AM

#17

broncocalijohn

centurion

Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 190

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Tall

Limp-reraising is fun, also calling for deception is really fun. Have fun.

And welcome to the forums!

-Joe

I agree. Unless I am short stacked in a tournament, I always bring in and don't complete. Once I repop it, other players will know that play and not try to steal from me just because I am the bring in. I don't play a ton of ring games which I might complete if the table is calling station and I want to mix it up a few times with a high buried pair or three stringed babies. In a ring game, it is sometimes the only way to get to play as few players as possible if your hand won't play well with 6 in the pot. Normally, I am always just bringing it in but when someone does it, everyone notices it and throws a nice loop in the game.

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01-17-2016 , 04:47 AM

#18

OmahaFanatical4

banned

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 5,123

short handed when your opponents are too likely to open limp

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01-20-2016 , 07:57 PM

#19

AsianNit

banned

Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 9,881

I would probably only do it if the combination of my opponents and the cards that are out don't make me immediately dismiss the idea of completing it blind.

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