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Old 04-24-2017, 10:04 AM   #26
lstream
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

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This whole thread is amazing, really shows how fastplaying always makes sense, super solid guy jams it up and people still want to raise him.
I admit to also being baffled on how this thread went. I fully expected to see some fold recommendations. All the raise talk on fifth and sixth surprised me.

Seat 5 went from defense to offense when he hit the ace on fifth. What could that possibly mean? Then he pairs his 8's on sixth and there is still talk of raising?!

Seat 5 called down to the river and lost to aces full with unimproved trip jacks.

Regarding putting in five bets on third, this did seem out of line. I guess it took seat 3 that long to figure out he was against rolled jacks. The only explanation to me is that he has seen Seat 5 go goofy when he is that tired. These two guys also don't like each other. Not one bit.

Maybe you had to be there, but I was close to 100% positive that Seat 3 had trip aces on fifth. Can't sure for sure that I would have folded sixth, but no way in hell was I raising there.
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Old 04-24-2017, 11:09 AM   #27
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

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I admit to also being baffled on how this thread went. I fully expected to see some fold recommendations. All the raise talk on fifth and sixth surprised me.

Seat 5 went from defense to offense when he hit the ace on fifth. What could that possibly mean? Then he pairs his 8's on sixth and there is still talk of raising?!

Seat 5 called down to the river and lost to aces full with unimproved trip jacks.

Regarding putting in five bets on third, this did seem out of line. I guess it took seat 3 that long to figure out he was against rolled jacks. The only explanation to me is that he has seen Seat 5 go goofy when he is that tired. These two guys also don't like each other. Not one bit.

Maybe you had to be there, but I was close to 100% positive that Seat 3 had trip aces on fifth. Can't sure for sure that I would have folded sixth, but no way in hell was I raising there.
Correction. Seat 3 went from defence to offence on fifth.
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Old 04-25-2017, 09:16 PM   #28
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

A lot of spewy wannabes itt.
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Old 04-26-2017, 06:39 AM   #29
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

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Where we are in our range only matters for how often we need to call down. If the guys board was AAAA and you had rolled up would you keep raising because you are at the top of your range?
Come on, that's clearly not what I meant.

Given the OPs description of the players involved, I thought it likely that S3 wasn't giving S5 credit for as good a hand as he had. That's all. Do you always have to have the nuts to play back at a player who plays too long and tends to overvalue hands?
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Old 04-26-2017, 08:19 PM   #30
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

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Come on, that's clearly not what I meant.

Given the OPs description of the players involved, I thought it likely that S3 wasn't giving S5 credit for as good a hand as he had. That's all. Do you always have to have the nuts to play back at a player who plays too long and tends to overvalue hands?


Well it seemed clear to me you were making a "where we are in our range" argument. And no I far from a nitty player who is scared of monsters but I'd never be in this situation cuz I wouldn't jam on 3rd street. The problem in this hand is once the jamming started on third, ranges narrowed up super fast.

It's like in Holdem I see guys go like 11 bets pre all the time with big pairs but if the guy with kings thinks it was right to slow down pre he probably shouldn't raise the flop when it comes 973 just because it's a good flop for kings.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:18 AM   #31
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

You wouldn't jam 3rd with rolled Jacks?!

Bottom line: I disagree with people saying his lead out on 5th automatically means he hit trip Aces. I'm raising for value and if he repops it, then I'm slowing down.

I know you're not a scared nit btw. Respect you and your game immensely. I think you just misunderstood what I meant.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:29 AM   #32
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

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You wouldn't jam 3rd with rolled Jacks?!

Bottom line: I disagree with people saying his lead out on 5th automatically means he hit trip Aces. I'm raising for value and if he repops it, then I'm slowing down.

I know you're not a scared nit btw. Respect you and your game immensely. I think you just misunderstood what I meant.
I realize it isn't directed at me, BUT

There really isn't any reason to do much more than 2b on 3rd and call 3 with a standard range in the grand scheme of things. You're giving information that can be used against on FIVE STREETS. I'll get jammy with flambouyant players in hold'em for lolzandrollz.png, but it isn't theoretically good strategy from a mathematical standpoint. In Stud, it's an even worse play, IMHO. I have not done a ton of research.

I can only imagine an over-aggressive player, you can wait until 5th, or 6th to raise, and pick-up that extra small bet anyway and not give away your hand, because they'll whimsically decide to put you on a draw, etc. Much like they'll whimsically decide to put you on one pair. But you know, I haven't done a ton of research. I don't think it can be good.
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:26 AM   #33
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

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Bottom line: I disagree with people saying his lead out on 5th automatically means he hit trip Aces.
What else could it mean? We are not dealing with an amateur or tourist here, even though he got out of line on third. In fact, how can his aggression on third mean anything else than rolled fours, or QQ, KK, AA?

Then if you don't believe that range to be true on third, then what else can he possibly be telling you on fifth when he leads out? What else do you need to be convinced?

After third with S5 screaming how strong he is, is he really leading out if he doesn't believe he is now ahead? What value would there be in repping aces, if he doesn't have them, since S5 sure isn't folding on fifth? Again, he clearly does not want to miss a bet on fifth, so we have to give him aces don't we? What else makes sense?

Why do you want to risk throwing in another $80 with all the evidence lining up this way?
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Old 04-27-2017, 11:46 AM   #34
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

444, QQ or KK betting the scare card, Aces up even. His lead out seems weakish to me, not super strong.

Food for thought: if you were S3 would you bet out on 5th here after hitting gin? Perfect spot for a c/r which lessens the chances of AAA in my mind. I may be way off, but that's my thinking here.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:30 PM   #35
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

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444, QQ or KK betting the scare card, Aces up even. His lead out seems weakish to me, not super strong.

Food for thought: if you were S3 would you bet out on 5th here after hitting gin? Perfect spot for a c/r which lessens the chances of AAA in my mind. I may be way off, but that's my thinking here.
In this game, I am betting trip aces every time. Even though S5 is tired, he is no idiot either. My belief is that a check-raise attempt is going to result in a lost bet, more often than not. I expect him to check behind after that third street action if we give him the chance. Plus, if is in dumb-ass delirious mode, I might just get three bets in if he raises. But for sure, I am getting at least one, and eliminate the chance for it to be zero.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:51 PM   #36
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Re: Another 20/40 stud hi hand (rolled jacks encore)

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.
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