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75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? 75/150 Stud8...peel 4th?

06-27-2016 , 07:15 PM
$25 ante, $25 bring in.

6 handed:
3h brings in, 4c completes, K Fold, 9 Fold, Tc calls, I call (56)7r, bring in calls.

Reads:
Bring in is on the tighter side, 4c is solid player, Tc is on mondo tilt.

4th:
Bring in catches a 5h, other two players brick, I catch a J.

Checks to Bring in who bets, fold, fold. My turn to act (HU now).

My question is, and I keep running into these spots where a lot of people think I'm crazy for calling (56)7J on 4th, but I feel like this is still a good spot to peel getting over 5:1.

Even if I give Villain a very strong hand like Ah6c3h5h he is still only a 2:1 favorite equity wise in this hand. I understand the dynamics of later street playability and putting yourself in bad spots but I feel that even in a somewhat worst case scenario like this (I think Villain would re-raise 3 wheel cards pre or Aces), I am getting just such a good price to peel.

Other Questions:

1) If you would call here, would you also call if it were 3 handed going into 4th and you were HU closing the action in this spot? I personally most likely would as well; however I would still most likely fold if it were HU going into 3rd even vs a bring-in with a potentially weaker range.

2) Let's say I was not closing the action and instead had 567J with that 4c behind me who also bricked. Should I be even more likely to peel in this scenario as well or does my high hand value go way down in strength multiway?
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
06-27-2016 , 08:52 PM
Your implied odds are negative and you will have a playing disadvantage because you are a card behind. Now is a good time to fold. You don't just look at immediate odds (as you alluded to in ur dynamics of later street playability line). As an aside why is the ante so high in this game? 15 is standard for 75. The 25 ante can make looser play right but I don't think it's enough in this case. Also it will make many plays by bad players in this game less costly in the long run which is bad for you, however if they overcompensate it can be good.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
06-30-2016 , 03:25 PM
Speeds game up...
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
07-02-2016 , 08:04 PM
raise 3rd and then you have even better odds to peel 4th. Generally you want to look to fold 4th, but you can peel that here vs. 35.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
07-03-2016 , 12:05 AM
Chips seems to hit on something here. If you raise 3rd you have better odds to peel 4th. I normally don't play like that. I would make the same call and then fold 4th. I don't believe the equity is there to make the play.

If you are someone who decides to call 4th you need to have decent hand reading ability. You could catch a 2 and not have a ****ing clue where you are at and then you get yourself into spots that are even more difficult to determine equity in the hand. If you have the hand reading ability you can much more easily navigate these waters, otherwise you are putting yourself in a super difficult situation without anyway to swim out even if you catch decent.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
07-03-2016 , 05:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChipsAhoya
raise 3rd and then you have even better odds to peel 4th. Generally you want to look to fold 4th, but you can peel that here vs. 35.
Think Chips is trolling a little, but in a 3-way pot this has actual merit. HU it's fish logic, but you hear it even from experienced players often enough. You could put half your bankroll in on Third, then you'd have great odds to peel pretty much anything. You should only raise Third when the raise itself is a good idea.

A reason to raise is that you don't want a crappy hand like (63)3 to realize its equity from the bring in, or back into a board that makes you want to fold, like now.

I'd like the peel more if there weren't a 3 out, and if the other player caught an 8 rather than a 5, but regardless, peeling one is still fine.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
07-03-2016 , 11:09 PM
I said "raise 3rd and" not "raise 3rd so".
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
08-08-2016 , 01:35 PM
I like raising third also. but even not raising third, you are still getting 7 to 1(not 5) on a call closing action. must call
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
08-08-2016 , 02:21 PM
Not opposed to raising 3rd, but in a situation like this you're still going to get bet into almost every time when you pull a J and they improve to a 4-card low. You also often get bet into even when the 5 paired them up, because they know you're likely to fold here if you're on a low draw.

So yeah, in the long run, I don't think I'd personally raise 3rd here unless I think I'm comfortably ahead and building some equity with it.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
08-10-2016 , 05:13 PM
I'm calling 4th as played... you need to be willing to shut down 5th if you brick again or if villain hits again but for now his bet is almost automatic being the only player who didn't brick so it's not that scary. Your straight cards are still pretty live and even a lot of your pair outs might be good HU.

For your other questions:

1) I probably still peel if it was 3-way to 4th, depending on how tight the bettor is

2) I think I'd be less likely to call with action behind me. Villain is already threatening a 2-way hand so I don't think you want a 3rd player making it tougher to get a piece.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
08-10-2016 , 05:28 PM
Yeah I don't think it's a bad idea to call 4th as played. If you hit a wheel card low on 5th and the bring-in gets a pair card or a high card and still bets, then you may be ahead on your low draw with 2 cards to go. If he hits another low card and you brick, you can easily fold with minimal investment because you're almost certainly getting freerolled. If he hits a low and you hit a pair, you're probably ahead on the high, although you're probably not feeling great about calling it down the rest of the way.

I think the hardest part about calling 4th street here is that you're not likely to feel great about how the rest of the hand plays out, but mathematically it's probably the right play.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
09-01-2016 , 06:25 AM
Anyone like folding 3rd here do to the fact that two of your secondary straight cards and one of your primarys is dead, in addition that maybe more are dead? This is an auto fold in my book.

Oops thought stud hi, but maybe still an argument. Paint on fourth auto fold anyway.
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote
09-01-2016 , 04:51 PM
That´s a fold on 4th. U are getting 5:1 on 4th street but u cant really compare it to ur equity because u are not calling to a showdown, u will have to put a lot of more money to go to showdown and that will be not profitbale. And if u think ur villain has a635 u should know that is very unlikely u will win mmore than half pot...
75/150 Stud8...peel 4th? Quote

      
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