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Old 11-17-2011, 10:12 PM   #1
cushlash
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TI announced today via twitter that they will be "hiring poker players" starting in January. I can't find any more info on it than this, does anyone know any more details?
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Old 11-17-2011, 11:18 PM   #2
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
TI announced today via twitter that they will be "hiring poker players" starting in January. I can't find any more info on it than this, does anyone know any more details?
I think they're talking about this promotion:

Play 10 hours = $50
Play 20 hours = $150
Play 30 hours = $250
Play 40 hours = $400

http://www.allvegaspoker.com/forum/v...5885&start=160

Last edited by jjbooey; 11-17-2011 at 11:18 PM. Reason: .
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:07 AM   #3
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by jjbooey View Post
I think they're talking about this promotion:

Play 10 hours = $50
Play 20 hours = $150
Play 30 hours = $250
Play 40 hours = $400

http://www.allvegaspoker.com/forum/v...5885&start=160
Very interesting, thanks, not quite propping but still better than nothing.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:01 AM   #4
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
Very interesting, thanks, not quite propping but still better than nothing.
It's BETTER than propping. You can play whatever hours you want at whatever stakes you want and get $10/hr for doing so long as you put in a 40 hour week. And they probably won't be sending the IRS any W2's for it.

I have NO clue how they can support this. Seems like it'll be financially ruinous. But I'll bet it brings in players.
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Old 11-18-2011, 12:25 PM   #5
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by bav View Post
I have NO clue how they can support this. Seems like it'll be financially ruinous. But I'll bet it brings in players.
Because most players won't get the $10, and because they'll rake more than $10 doing it.

And, if successful, nothing draws a crowd like a crowd.
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:56 PM   #6
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjbooey View Post
I think they're talking about this promotion:

Play 10 hours = $50
Play 20 hours = $150
Play 30 hours = $250
Play 40 hours = $400

http://www.allvegaspoker.com/forum/v...5885&start=160
Wow - damn good deal. On top of $2 per hour comps. Seriously, this would be better than a job as a prop.
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:00 PM   #7
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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It's BETTER than propping. You can play whatever hours you want at whatever stakes you want and get $10/hr for doing so long as you put in a 40 hour week. And they probably won't be sending the IRS any W2's for it.

I have NO clue how they can support this. Seems like it'll be financially ruinous. But I'll bet it brings in players.
From what I have found, low level props make more than $10 an hour, but after I made that post I was thinking about it a bit and realized that it may be better because though you don't get as much per hour, you can play not only whatever stakes you want but you won't get pulled from good games to play bad games. You could also make your own 40 hour schedule instead of them telling you when to come in, which doesn't apply to all prop gigs but for some it does.

That said, it depends on how they are funding it, it says they are using the jackpot drop. I'm assuming they aren't actually taking extra just for this promotion, because that would definitely decrease the upside. Also, playing there as opposed to a place without a jackpot drop altogether would save you ~3/hour, so on net you are getting 7/hr at best. Still sounds like a sweet deal and I hope its still going when I get there in May/June.
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Old 11-19-2011, 03:51 AM   #8
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Ok, Im not the best at maths, so which game is best to play during this promo including all rake and based on 25 hands/ hr ( I know people say 30 h/h but I lowball everything so I can feel good later)?

Im in Pa. and would consider taking my 1st trip to vegas for this promo. Sounds interesting.

Last edited by IseizeDeadMonies; 11-19-2011 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 11-19-2011, 08:23 PM   #9
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by cushlash View Post
TI announced today via twitter that they will be "hiring poker players" starting in January. I can't find any more info on it than this, does anyone know any more details?
This is true. Starts january 1st. Please let me know if you have any questions about it!

-Troy
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:03 PM   #10
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This is true. Starts january 1st. Please let me know if you have any questions about it!

-Troy
How long is promo going to run?
What variants and stakes are elligible?
Is the $2 comp rate available all stakes?
Is there a limit to how many weeks one can participate?
Could you lock up seat 2 or 8 for me?
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:24 PM   #11
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by IseizeDeadMonies View Post
How long is promo going to run?
What variants and stakes are elligible?
Is the $2 comp rate available all stakes?
Is there a limit to how many weeks one can participate?
Could you lock up seat 2 or 8 for me?
1-3 NLH and Higher, 3-6 LHE and Higher
$2 comps in all cash games
No Limit to number of times participating
LOL, we can try, if you call ahead, 702-894-7291
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Old 11-19-2011, 09:25 PM   #12
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

We're hoping to run it for quite some time. Nothing set in stone, however.
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Old 11-20-2011, 04:41 AM   #13
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by MSUspartan4 View Post
We're hoping to run it for quite some time. Nothing set in stone, however.
Here's one plausible scenario:

IP and Flamingo and Bills and whoever else is now running morning aces-cracked promos will empty, and instead they'll all flock to TI. They will sit in the 3/6 game and just fold around all hands except AK+ for 7 hours a day 7 days a week. The house will rake almost nothing, the dealers will be tipped $8/down on a good down, and the players will take home $500/wk. The tables will pay out $100/hr/table while the jackpot drop will be $20/hr and the jackpot fund will run dry quickly.

So I recommend getting in while the getting is good. Harrah's practically went broke trying to give away $10/hr for a maximum of 3 hours a day if and only if those 3 hours were put in during a morning session. TI's promo is bigger and better--the room will be flooded with nits who are aiming to snag their $20K/yr tax free income that includes free ethanol and coffee (that is, except for the nits who are too cheap to tip the waitresses and don't have the nerve to openly stiff 'em, so they bring in their own beverages from home).

What might save 'em is that this promo will also attract non-nits--something Harrah's morning promo didn't do because non-nits just don't play a lot between 8am and 2pm. These are folks who just wanna play their normal NL game while snagging $10/hr for the effort. It's a bit hard to know if the nits will totally overwhelm the room and for how many hours a day.

I approve of TI's efforts to be creative and attract players, but this promo just has little chance of being sustainable once word gets around.
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Old 11-20-2011, 12:40 PM   #14
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bav View Post
Here's one plausible scenario:

IP and Flamingo and Bills and whoever else is now running morning aces-cracked promos will empty, and instead they'll all flock to TI. They will sit in the 3/6 game and just fold around all hands except AK+ for 7 hours a day 7 days a week. The house will rake almost nothing, the dealers will be tipped $8/down on a good down, and the players will take home $500/wk. The tables will pay out $100/hr/table while the jackpot drop will be $20/hr and the jackpot fund will run dry quickly.

So I recommend getting in while the getting is good. Harrah's practically went broke trying to give away $10/hr for a maximum of 3 hours a day if and only if those 3 hours were put in during a morning session. TI's promo is bigger and better--the room will be flooded with nits who are aiming to snag their $20K/yr tax free income that includes free ethanol and coffee (that is, except for the nits who are too cheap to tip the waitresses and don't have the nerve to openly stiff 'em, so they bring in their own beverages from home).

What might save 'em is that this promo will also attract non-nits--something Harrah's morning promo didn't do because non-nits just don't play a lot between 8am and 2pm. These are folks who just wanna play their normal NL game while snagging $10/hr for the effort. It's a bit hard to know if the nits will totally overwhelm the room and for how many hours a day.

I approve of TI's efforts to be creative and attract players, but this promo just has little chance of being sustainable once word gets around.
We have the "nit" clause on the rules sheet. TI reserves the right to disqualify any player from this promotion at any time. If you aren't there to play poker, and be a pleasant person to be around, you aren't welcome. Also, If we have to adjust it to NL only, we will do that. I'm definitely aware of Harrah's attempt and failure of a similar promotion and will be doing everything I can to keep it from happening at TI.
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:27 PM   #15
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by MSUspartan4 View Post
We have the "nit" clause on the rules sheet. TI reserves the right to disqualify any player from this promotion at any time. If you aren't there to play poker, and be a pleasant person to be around, you aren't welcome. Also, If we have to adjust it to NL only, we will do that. I'm definitely aware of Harrah's attempt and failure of a similar promotion and will be doing everything I can to keep it from happening at TI.
If you're trying to get me to move to Vegas, it just might work.
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Old 11-20-2011, 01:42 PM   #16
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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If you're trying to get me to move to Vegas, it just might work.
If I lived in Vegas I know where I'd be 40+ hours a week for the entire length of this promotion.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:00 PM   #17
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If you're trying to get me to move to Vegas, it just might work.
Can I ride with you?
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:10 AM   #18
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Can I ride with you?
If you're pitching in gas money you can.

Over several thousand hours of poker that I've tracked, I have a win rate of about $7 per hour. Obviously that is not enough to live off of, but if I can play 50 hours a week and maintain that rate I'll be at $850/wk* plus $100 in comps.

However, if I do make the move and the promotion ends I will be royally screwed.

*What the post here doesn't say, but the TI post on Facebook does say is that after 40 hours it goes up by $100 for every 10th hour after that. (only in increments of 10 hours.)

As of right now the plan is to go to Vegas sometime in early January, get a room at an extended stay place and see how I like it for a month or so. If I am not hating life after that much playing I'll come back to Jersey, pack up my stuff and head out there.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:11 AM   #19
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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*What the post here doesn't say, but the TI post on Facebook does say is that after 40 hours it goes up by $100 for every 10th hour after that. (only in increments of 10 hours.)
FACT
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:39 PM   #20
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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[The TI promo is] BETTER than propping. You can play whatever hours you want at whatever stakes you want and get $10/hr for doing so long as you put in a 40 hour week. And they probably won't be sending the IRS any W2's for it.
I'm not sure whether people are just overestimating the upside or underestimating the downside here.

1. $12/hr is not a lot of money. It's below what people make at Starbucks, and depending on how much you need health care, you may be better off with $12/hr plus benefits than with $12/hr plus "nobody's gonna stop you from committing tax fraud."

2. Speaking of that, let me point out that just because TI doesn't send you a W-2 or 1099 doesn't mean that you don't have to pay taxes. Pay your damn taxes.

3. Even if $12/hr were a lot of money, it's still less than what the TI would pay a real prop.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bav
I have NO clue how they can support this. Seems like it'll be financially ruinous. But I'll bet it brings in players.
Like the Venetian's "$5/$10 blinds" promo, the biggest thing to consider is whether you really want the players this brings in. As people have pointed out, time-based promotions generally pull in a ton of nits who want to capitalize on the promotion and leave with as little money wagered as possible.

It's far more valuable, IMO, to bring in people who are going to "churn" money - creating action where action didn't exist. Take, for instance, the difference between a typical "aces cracked" promo (where you reward AA for NOT generating action and letting people draw against them) and a "crack aces" promo (where you reward 72o for cracking AA). The latter generates a whole lot more "churn" because AA is going to play hard as is 72o; the former encourages both to play passively.

Another way to generate action is to tie the chances of winning a promotion to something other than time, for example, the number of pots won. The Bicycle Casino does a promotion where they give an iPad to the person who wins the most pots over a certain time (the dealer just throws a nondenominational chip into every pot and that's used to count the pots won). You could also put raffle tickets into each pot won (so that the more pots you win the more raffle tickets you have) or something like that.

Straight up paying players to show up is the lighter fluid of a charcoal grill. The flame only lasts for a few seconds and the heat dissipates into the atmosphere; it's far better to get one of those columns where one wadded up newspaper can light 20 briquets, and you don't need any lighter fluid at all.
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:49 PM   #21
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bav View Post
It's BETTER than propping. You can play whatever hours you want at whatever stakes you want and get $10/hr for doing so long as you put in a 40 hour week. And they probably won't be sending the IRS any W2's for it.

I have NO clue how they can support this. Seems like it'll be financially ruinous. But I'll bet it brings in players.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Palimax View Post
Because most players won't get the $10, and because they'll rake more than $10 doing it.

And, if successful, nothing draws a crowd like a crowd.
Sounds too good to be true, which makes me wonder how long TI can keep it going. Really wish that I lived in Vegas so that I could take part in this! I'ld be playing 40+ hours a week for sure if the 1/3 game is running. Maybe the 2/5 if it's capped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSUspartan4 View Post
We have the "nit" clause on the rules sheet. TI reserves the right to disqualify any player from this promotion at any time. If you aren't there to play poker, and be a pleasant person to be around, you aren't welcome. Also, If we have to adjust it to NL only, we will do that. I'm definitely aware of Harrah's attempt and failure of a similar promotion and will be doing everything I can to keep it from happening at TI.
I applaud your efforts, and I hope that you can make this work! What a great deal for the players!!! I've gotta talk the girlfriend into going to Vegas with me.....

Lee
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:59 PM   #22
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
I'm not sure whether people are just overestimating the upside or underestimating the downside here.

1. $12/hr is not a lot of money. It's below what people make at Starbucks, and depending on how much you need health care, you may be better off with $12/hr plus benefits than with $12/hr plus "nobody's gonna stop you from committing tax fraud."

2. Speaking of that, let me point out that just because TI doesn't send you a W-2 or 1099 doesn't mean that you don't have to pay taxes. Pay your damn taxes.

3. Even if $12/hr were a lot of money, it's still less than what the TI would pay a real prop.

Like the Venetian's "$5/$10 blinds" promo, the biggest thing to consider is whether you really want the players this brings in. As people have pointed out, time-based promotions generally pull in a ton of nits who want to capitalize on the promotion and leave with as little money wagered as possible.

It's far more valuable, IMO, to bring in people who are going to "churn" money - creating action where action didn't exist. Take, for instance, the difference between a typical "aces cracked" promo (where you reward AA for NOT generating action and letting people draw against them) and a "crack aces" promo (where you reward 72o for cracking AA). The latter generates a whole lot more "churn" because AA is going to play hard as is 72o; the former encourages both to play passively.

Another way to generate action is to tie the chances of winning a promotion to something other than time, for example, the number of pots won. The Bicycle Casino does a promotion where they give an iPad to the person who wins the most pots over a certain time (the dealer just throws a nondenominational chip into every pot and that's used to count the pots won). You could also put raffle tickets into each pot won (so that the more pots you win the more raffle tickets you have) or something like that.

Straight up paying players to show up is the lighter fluid of a charcoal grill. The flame only lasts for a few seconds and the heat dissipates into the atmosphere; it's far better to get one of those columns where one wadded up newspaper can light 20 briquets, and you don't need any lighter fluid at all.

True, $12 an hour isn't a lot of money. But, if you are a winning player anyway - this is a free bonus on top of your other winnings.

As for the nits - why not just raise them liberally? They'll fold most hands, so raising should be profitable. And, when they start to play back, then action is created. Or am I missing something?

The raffle idea was done at Caesar's Palace in Vegas for a year or so. Seemed to me that it brought in a lot of players and created action (and was profitable for those of us who were playing a lot and thus getting lots of tickets) - but they stopped doing it so what do I know....

Lee
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Old 11-21-2011, 05:43 PM   #23
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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True, $12 an hour isn't a lot of money. But, if you are a winning player anyway - this is a free bonus on top of your other winnings.
Assuming that TI spreads the games you're beating. If you're solidly beating 2/5 NL or 20/40 FL (~$30/hr?), you probably don't want to drop down to 1/2 (~$15/hr?) or 3/6 FL (~$0/hr) just to claim a bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lovesantiques
As for the nits - why not just raise them liberally? They'll fold most hands, so raising should be profitable. And, when they start to play back, then action is created. Or am I missing something?
There's plenty to be gained from raising nits. But not as much as there to be gained from playing with psychos.

You'll get action from the nits, but you never want it. They know how to take turns calling you with the nuts, and the "schooling effect" that you see with loose-passives applies to tight-passives as well (they will do better collectively against a common opponent than individually).
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:21 PM   #24
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

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1. $12/hr is not a lot of money.
I agree, but you see, I pull $700-$1k+ weekly in the golf business (20-30hrs/week). So for me, $12/hr @ 40hrs/week sitting on my butt doing what I really love(combined with an above average winrate playing poker) is a pretty good BR builder IMHO.

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2. Speaking of that, let me point out that just because TI doesn't send you a W-2 or 1099 doesn't mean that you don't have to pay taxes. Pay your damn taxes.
It isnt really any of your business what people do as far as paying taxes is it? Not even sure why you would even care what others do when it comes to paying taxes. Im incorporating soon so my poker winnings will be included in my tax paying responsibilities if this helps ease your mind.



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Originally Posted by callipygian View Post
3. Even if $12/hr were a lot of money, it's still less than what the TI would pay a real prop.
Maybe if myself and Mr. Horning get along nicely, we could explore some employment opportunities?




Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveMorge View Post
If you're pitching in gas money you can.
As luck would have it, Im about 35 mins west of Philly in Limerick Pa. Not sure if I can PM yet so... Ill try...if not pM me, maybe thatll work.



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However, if I do make the move and the promotion ends I will be royally screwed.
No worries Im sure we can find you something with me in zee golf bizz ;-) (provided gas and other fees can be negotiated)
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Old 11-21-2011, 08:28 PM   #25
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Re: "Prop"... To be or not to be ; Questions about wot seems to be a kush job (2 me)

We are forgetting some other +EV opportunities while discussing this promo:

1) $2500 weekly FR entry

2) 1 cash wheel spin weekly

You are also qualifying for these along with the 40 hr/weekly for $400 requirement ( I think....please confirm T )

Last edited by IseizeDeadMonies; 11-21-2011 at 08:47 PM.
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