When those two first came in I thought "bad girl" was the witches daughter until I saw her close up. Definitely a cougar - and not bad looking for her age - mid/late 40's?

Yep that's the one!!!

MJ is always there.

Kim is the skinny black dealer? Yeah, she is around maybe a different shift? New haircut too. Some of the dealers got bumped a few months ago, I know Angel is on the morning shift now =/

And wtf, Big Daddy owns Rakeback Nation?

also, the new felt sucks. im never going back.

Go for it. Post TR on OOT or BBV4L (link back so we can find it).

Follow the rule: Do whatever makes the best story, you personal feelings and interest don't matter. Happy hunting.

POTO sucked in Septmeber after being a good place to visit on business from 2007-2009

Dan, I remember you posting about visiting there on a Sunday. Did you try to play on a Friday or Saturday night? Sundays at the Poto have generally blown when I've gone, so I don't bother any more.

Here's the latest trip report. I was there earlier this week and played for about 6 hours during the day. There were three 3-5nl tables running which is what I played. They also had some 2-4 lhe and 3-6 lhe tables but i'm not sure how many of either. There was one 5-10 plo table that was 500-2500 buyin. The PLO game didn't have too much money being thrown around just by looking at the stack sizes. They only had 5-6 players the entire time I was there. I haven't played there in probably 9 months and I didn't see any the guys that I remembered that really threw money around and could feed a few grand into the game in a session. There were a lot of the regulars that I remember and the game was as good as usual. Very very few of the regulars are that solid and the games are always very easy to beat. I usually 4-table 25nl-100nl 6maxand I am profitable before rakeback but I'm not great. That being said I am always a favorite in the game at POTO and very rarely have a losing session. Reading hands is incredibly easy and if you can't beat this game you will never be a winning player.

so what ever happened to that whitesox guy that always wore a whitesox hat and almost never tipped the dealers??? Havn't seen him in a long time.

2007-2008 I was there a few times during the week in the old room and played 4/8 and 6/12 mostly (though with the kill the 4/8 played at least as big). Very soft I thought.

Last December I got to play some 3/6 that was a snooze fest and then a short but great O8 session (I thought 5/10) on the way back to the airport, again weekdays.

Sadly I've never been there Friday or Saturday. I was there that weekend and we had dinner with Chicago friends Saturday, the guys were in for the casino, the gals not so much . I would love to give it a try, I understand some higher LHE games get going. I had to wait for the wife to fly home Sunday (I was staying for business Monday). And Sunday was terriblly dead/dull.

Went to Poto for the first time this past Monday and enjoyed it. Played the 3-5nl and the PLO game. Lots of room here with tables not squeezed together. You definitely need the seat cushions though as the chairs have little padding. Wish it was closer for me I would go more often. Trip up there was fine...but on the way back 94east was closed due to construction and had to take a nitemare detour which totally sucked.

Went there Sunday to find out for myself (as stated earlier in this thread) that they got rid of the weekly tournaments. They had 2 2/4 games going and 2 3/6 games going. The classic 1-1-2 NL game with 8$ max rake was going as well as well with 3 3/5 NL games going. I ran well spewing for 2hours in the 3/6 game before my brother busted from the downstairs degen action in the casino before he dragged me out. But the 3/6 game isn't beatable no matter what people say. $5 Rake with 7 avg people to a flop seems unbeatable and if you are beating it your sample size is SUPER small/delusional or don't mind squeezing out a ~$2 hourly. This leaves the only profitable game for a person who plays for a living the 3/5 NL game, the few times I have played in the game it has been amazing but I don't have a roll to play in that game.

There is a few things they MUST do to make the room survive:

Get rid of the 2/4 LHE game, just get rid of it. Sure you may lose some people in the short run but you will get the player base filling in 3/6 spots which will spill over into 4/8 and maybe...just maybe allow for bigger LHE games (6/12, 8/16..etc).

The add in the cardplayer magazine is nice but its misleading and false. I havent seen a spread limit or stud game going in that room since the room was in the bingo hall...its nice to OFFER the games but just correct the ad to reflect the "regular" games.

Have your $5 max rake but do it at 5% instead of 10% (except for NL), They use half dollars anyways in the trays so cut the damn white chip players a break, raking a near full big bet for 3/6 is ******ed.

I don't understand the reason for getting rid of the tournaments, the TOURNAMENTS not making enough money? Thats fine but what about all the foot traffic and additional action they bring into the cash games...ever think of that? Well, I guess that explains the dead Sunday of only 8 tables going...last Sunday tournament I was at not only did they have more games going they had a FULL 5/10 NL game going. Sure the juice was light on tourneys but losing out on the ability to rake 4-5+ more tables probably costs more money in the long run.

I still can't wrap my head around the $8 rake at a 1-1-2 NL game. They want to keep there precious 2/4 and 3/6 games since they can rake the bloody piss out of them but here is a news flash...this isn't the 80's and 90's anymore. People WANT to play NL and they don't want to get raped when they do it. Keep it a 3 blind game but ATLEAST have one more table of it and drop the rake down.

Hes part owner

They don't have to change anything because they dont have any competition. Everything changed since Joe left they fired half the dealers took away their seniority, and started making the dealers use 50 cent pieces so they get max rake on every hand.

The rake on the 1-1-2 game is nuts, but the players are so bad it may be worth it. The smart players wont play because of the rake that leaves all the 2/4 fish. I played it one time while waiting for a seat on 3/5 and made $800 in 2 hrs. I value bet super thin because they dont fold.

As someone who used to grind out 3/6 for a while, I was beating it for more than $2 hourly. About 2bb's/hour. It isn't hard, you have to be patient which obv. you aren't. Yes, I have had a decent sample from it too, it wasn't 2 weeks from it, I built my roll from it. Newsflash, avg. of 7 ppl to a flop is a good thing, that makes it all the more beatable, not less.

I know multiple people that beat the 3/6 game for at least 1 BB/hr over a statistically significantly sample size.

If you have 7+ people to a flop you lose out on whats called non showdown winnings. These are winnings you make from bluffs or semi bluffs which = a solid % of a good players earnrate leaving the only bulk earn you are getting from is hands which are shown down. Since everyone in the long run is dealt the same cards the only advantage a good player has is 2 and 3 betting lighter than the avg donk in this game making you 1bb ahead of the competition on avg. But since you are getting raked nearly 1bb the earnrate leave you with 1/6th of a BB winner (not including toke).

If you beat the game after playing it 10-15 times and think thats an amazing sample size...good job, you ran much better than average but if you are one of the standard tight regulars trying to defend the profitability of the game thats pretty sad given that you can put in infinite more times volume online with a MUCH better winrate and lower rake.

it's called equity. look it up.
your "non showdown winnings" theory is absurd.

If your worried about non showdown winnings then play higher or play nl

I played 10-15 times in a 2 week span when I was grinding it for well over 8 months but you're right, you can't beat 3/6.

Yep, Non Showdown Winnings is an absurd theory...what am I thinking, I guess I should disable it in HEM (thats Holdem Manager for you live players). Google is a good friend to lookup someones "absurd theory". Just because you never heard of a poker term before doesn't mean it isn't regularly used between winning players...or in this case very popular poker software.

bacats: I am glad someone is grinding out the 3/6 game since 25 hands down/h at 4$ avg rake is $100 an hour to the house. Figure an avg stack in that game is about $70 so that makes $700 available to get raked. If you figure everyone has equal % to the rake thats -$10 an hour to each player. So you need to be making 2bb/hour just to make $2 and 3bb/hour to make $8. You can make the argument that your % owed to the rake is less since you may play tighter but you are still victim to the attrition of the blinds which on avg would be $10 an hour to pay a 25hands per hour so either way you are getting shafted.

You should post your live 3/6 results in the 8month span in BBV, I am sure you would get some serious props being one of the small handfulls of people to crush a 3/6 $4-$5 raked live LHE game ever.


HC28: Thats my point, you cant play higher at Potowatomi, thats the problem. The highest LHE game is 3/6 and the only viable NL option is a 3/5 game.

u are delusional. There are alot of 3/6 grinders. You and your 16 posts and you think you are some king. Take your **** elsewhere. Non showdown winnings is absurd in a 3/6 game is all he meant. Obv by your posts you are still a newbie who only plays NL HE. With all your math, I was beating my 3/6 game for over $10/hr if I posted results in BBV I would get flamed with "standard"

btw your math is off, because if you make 2bb/hr, you make $12/hr. not $2. Does your HEM (seeing as though you act like we don't know what that is) count your bb/100 pre rake?

Lol postcounts, when you can construct a good argument to make be believe that a live 3/6 LHE game with a $5 rake is beatable without being insulting or grasping at straws let me know because all I see is "I did this and I did that"...well thats nice, I went on a heater for thousands in online MTT wins in multiple weekends before but I wont go on P5's or the tournament sub forums using my small amount of results as gospel on how this should be done and this is why. There is things in poker that we all have touched on here: Equity, Non Showdown Winnings, Variance, Bankroll Management, Hourly Rate (or bb/100 for us internet geeks) and Rake along with other things . Until you can combine all these variables together to construct an counterpoint your argument is nothing but a bunch of winrates (which I think are false).

And My math isn't off, I was showing what it TAKES to beat the game as a joke (which it is) and since you are beating a 3/6 live LHE game without rakeback for over $10 an hour through 8months of play you are probably running WAY above expectation, your sample size is way smaller than you would admit or you are a shill for potowatomi either way you are taking this way too seriously. The time and energy you spend grinding out $10/h is better off spent multi tabling smaller games online. I dont have a clue to why everyone is jumping to defend Potowatomi here and there white chip LHE games, are online games and NLHE just THAT hard to adjust to? There is pleanty of good coaches

first off poto isn't' even my home b&m. This is the last I say on the subject, but why don't you go to the limit subforum and post your math and theory as to why 3/6 live in unbeatable. You will get flamed super hard. But without rakeback? I don't know of a B&M that doesn't have rakeback. See again another novice assumption. Poto's "rakeback" is $1/hr.

Lol @ needing coaches or not playing NL. You assume too much as well. Go back and read above, I played 3/6 to build my roll and now play NL.

How old are you, I play online and have been for years. I have mixed up live, online, limit, NL, Omaha, Stud, you name it, it is good for the game.

I suppose if we don't play strictly NLHE online, we aren't any good at poker. Kiddie games are down the street.

You know someone is bad at poker when they COMPLAIN about a game with 7 players to the flop. Learn to adjust to loose limit games.

what's great is the guy is complaining about having 7 players to a flop and then complaining about non-showdown winnings. how often does a 7-way pot get to showdown? i'd say it's pretty close to 100%

It is because I guess you can't be a winner in poker without bluffing and taking down pots on the flop every time.