Well things have settled down some from when I was here last. Gone is the 150 people on a waiting list at 7pm on Thursday night for 1/2. Which I thought would happen. The same thing happened in Pa. when the casino's opened. Your 2/5 goes off much more. I see there is 5 tables now. It would only go on the weekends and never more than 2 tables. Limit games never happen anymore.

Lol I could argue that as an Asian who grew up eating authentic Asian food at home, that the Asian section is very "take-out chinese". If you will.

If they increase the limits on the 2/5 game, it's going to die exactly the same way the Rivers 2/5 and 5/10 NLHE game died. Maybe a separate 5/5 or 5/10 NLHE game, though I don't know the "rec/fish" you talk about and what they'd be willing to play- because if enough of these players exist, why doesn't 5/5 or 5/10 just run every night? They're really too bored to play 2/5 lower stakes but too scared to play 5/5 or 5/10?

I also doubt the Shoe would start a separate 2/5 game with different limits.

I also doubt the casino would permanently change the limits on the 2/5 game- why shouldn't they like 5 tables of 2/5 going, even if people are short stacking? House collects the same rake (essentially), and I doubt they'd risk killing that for 1 possible extra tables of regs the way Rivers killed theirs.

I'm not saying I like the game- I think the 2/5 NLHE game stinks (which is why I'm doubly sad that the PLO game is starting to die, too). But I think pushing for a more frequent 5/5 or 5/10 game is more realistic/profitable.

Bad beat just hit. No specifics yet

JJJJ>7777, I was sitting at table next to it.

52k for new bad beat jackpot power dealer who just came to my table.glad the have secondary jackpot.

If Jeremy was genuinely concerned with making games sustainable he would be talking about reducing the rake. Changing game structures is never going to fix anything, I just moved outside DC and play at Charles Town and their $500 max $2/5 is the most profitable and by far the best nlhe game I've ever played in. Cleveland can't sustain a $6 rake at any limits. If they don't consider going to a traditional $75-$300 on $1/2, $500 max on $1/2 PLO and consider reducing the rake then the Horseshoe has its days numbered as a viable option for any pro or semi-serious recreational player. Clearly people are short stacking $2/5 because $1/2 with a $50 min is a turn off and they'd rather shoot their $200 in a game with some money on the table.

The problem is obvious that Jeremy's view of the poker world is skewed from his time in Hammond. He thinks because things worked so well in Hammond that it's a sustainable model for Cleveland and that's just not the case. He could keep the $200 max $1/2 games with the $7 drop ($6+bbj) because he had a metropolis to feed his player pool. He doesn't have that anymore and is failing to realize that. If they continue to neglect, people will congregate towards home games, the people that are east of Cleveland will start going back to Pittsburgh and serious players that are south may consider making the trip to Columbus instead.

Cliff's: Going to 200bb 2/5 will kill the game same as Rivers. Short buyins at $1/2, high rake, and management short sightedness is ultimate villains

But the 1/2 games get full and there is always a list. I dont play 1/2 hold em but lots of people do and it is working. In the long run, we know this is bad for the players and casino but he wont change anything.

The higher stakes dried up and its sad that even the plo games dont run like they used to. Games breaking at 10pm on friday nights is no fun.

I suggested to maybe consider capped plo games. I am not saying its a good idea but at 1/2 plo the game plays so nitty w the regs that its not worth sitting. Someone builds up a stack and goes on lock down. Maybe 100bb capped games could fix this and create lots of 3-4 betting pre. It obviously becomes a preflop flip game but thats ok w me if it creates action.

Also, about shortstacking... i dont play nl anymore but if i did i wouldn't play 1/2. 2/5 w a $200 buy in seems perfect for the guy who wants to buy in full at 1/2. It hurts the games though but that comes from the $50 buy in at 1/2. But in plo, i think short stacking gives you an edge. Especially when its a deep table that has been running for a while. I can sit w 3 $300 bullets and go from there. I usually do this.

I live 25 mins from Horseshoe and haven't been largely due to rake. They also don't have a ton of games that interest me, but that's secondary, FWIW.

5/10 doesn't run because there aren't enough whales in Cleveland and half the table consists of professional players so it's not a very profitable game and thus it doesn't get off. Omaha being popular amongst a core group of regs probably hurts it a ton too.

Most 2/5 games in the country have a $300 minimum buy-in, Horseshoe is in the minority with the $200 so I have no idea why you feel raising the min buy-in and letting us buy-in deep would kill the game. It was my understanding that the 1/3 game in rivers plays pretty big and that's why the 2/5 game there doesn't get off much. In other words, there was too much overlap between the two games.

No, Rivers used to have good 2/5 NLHE and sometimes 5/10 games, even with 1/3. The 2/5 game died as soon as they made the 2/5 game capped at max stack. Not only did all the former 5/10 players start just big-stacking 2/5, but all the former 2/5 fish were too scared to play a game where everyone had 200bb+ stacks. And then the deeper-stack players didn't want to keep playing against each other (obv).

I don't think that increasing the min buy-in to $300 is going to necessarily kill the game, but I think increasing the max buy-in might. You get way more randoms playing 2/5 by keeping the game smaller compared to players you lose- that's how they get 4-5 2/5 tables/night. Again, not saying I like it.

Agree with previous posts that the rake is ridiculously high... but the majority of the population (ie random fish) that play at Shoe don't even think about that- they just see a nearby casino and jump to it. The number of players that don't play at Shoe solely because of the rake is so minute compared to how much extra money they're making... not to mention as cap said, the room is still pretty full on weekends anyways. Maybe if the room starts to feel empty... but Shoe is still nowhere near that point.

Remember the amazing 10/25 game at mountaineer? Now look at that place. Its been dead for years.

Rake kills the game and games dry up. Nautica had the perfect combo of players and a schedule. 4-12 only and no other games and the most amazing action in the world (imo).

All the games will be dry soon, The casino market is over saturated, Columbus opens tomorrow. cincy soon, and its only a matter of time before each state goes this way, I wish it would all go back to just Vegas and atlantic city where casinos are.

The main 2/5 game broke up today because of people getting up, moving to other tables without the floor doing anything about it. When some guys tried to explain to the staff what happened, they just blew them off and basically told them to have sex with themselves. These are the guys who give the most action and the casino is basically turning them away with their actions (or lack thereof).

What do you mean by turn away? There is no competition...

Belterra in Indiana was the room to be until Hollywood Indiana opened up, that pretty much shut beltera down. When cincy opens up it will shut Hollywood Indiana down. So there are effects.

Really add ante to the hand. 25 hands an hour would cost you $25 an hour to play plus the already high rake. Talk about a game killer.

Players from the other 2/5 tables should have been moved to the main. It got down to 5 or 6 handed while the other 2 tables were 8 handed or full. When the players notified the floor, they didn't seem to care in the least. It was just poorly run and I can see lots of regs just sticking to home games or traveling to play in other casinos

This is the truth. The stronger players in this thread should be primarily concerned about keeping the casual players happy, so that they keep showing up. Once they're gone, there will be no games worth playing. Jeremy sounds like he has a good handle on this.

Not sure what their protocol is, but they (the floor) may have cancelled the "main game status" considering 3 games were up-n-running.

That's still no excuse for not overseeing table changes though...you got a point.

Not sure why you wouldn't want to play 5-6 handed though...that's a sweet spot in live poker.

Also, if you only can beat the droolers...you should quit poker. Or, get up and follow them like a sick stalker killer.

just my thoughts.

fmp

apparently, the game breaking had nothing to do with you necessarily...realized my post was in poor taste

I wish they would run 6 max 1/2 PLO games... Probably better for the house.

If the PLO games get 6-handed now, half the table acts like they're being tortured in a 60's-era Vietnamese POW camp.

How are the $15 food court vouchers given out? The buffet isn't bad (it's not great either), but it's a PITA having to wait in line for 10-15 minutes to get in. I'm not going to complain too much about free food, but the food court voucher is definitely more appealing, imo.

You can also use the $15 in slot play.

Bad beat was hit yesterday.
Quad 7's Vs. J's.
180k +