If you take the time to run the numbers rather than rambling aimlessly with your predisposed position you will find that depending on the promo it absolutely can be +EV during those times when it is in play. It obviously hurts the weekend player who funds it over those 2 days when the promo isn't running however $1k every 20 minutes when 40-45 games are running is +EV even with the extra $1 drop.

Actually ML ran this for weeks without the extra dollar and the $500 every 15 (where Mohegan got it from then copied by Foxwoods) had been going on all summer also without the extra drop. With the additional business a room the size of Foxwoods receives it can easily be funded without the added drop so long as a pct comes from the BBJ which last I saw was also a promo.

^^^ I'm pretty good at numbers.

The BBJ might have appeal to suckers, but it is insanely -EV. These other player funded promotions are not as bad, but still of dubious value. One of the reasons I like Foxwoods is that I have a choice of games up there, and usually elect to play in games that don't have jackpot drops.

If you are arguing that the casino will attempt innovative ways of bringing in people who can't do long division without a calculator, I won't disagree.

But if you are expecting Foxwoods to dig into it's own wallet because of the competition by giving away more rooms, offering rakeback and/or lowering rake etc, you are so wrong.

Regarding the bold, I don't think anyone is disputing that?

Can you explain your first statement - The BBJ is highly -EV but the other promos aren't as bad? How are the others less -EV?

Well, at least 30% of the HH doesn't go to the IRS.....

For starters ...

This.

And then the effect of holding onto a couple hundred thousands of dollars from poker players - not good for the poker economy. And finally, let's take into account the uneven way the money is distributed.

More people would be playing poker were it not for these BBJ's.

Who is arguing that a BBJ isn't -EV? I'm not sure what dubious value occurs when $500 or $1000 HH's are in play every 15, 20, or 30 min depending on the promo. You say you are pretty good at numbers, I'd like to see your data where these promots are -EV when the drop remains $1 yet the distribution increases. When you add the additional dollar the $500 with 80 tables running like a FW is marginal however bump it to $1000 and it isn't even close. A room like MarylandLive! with their $1000 every 20 with a max of 52 tables running are a home run for the Limit and 1/2 player especially with the value decreasing as you move up in stakes.

Let's say a player plays about 40 hours a month, spread out evenly over about a half dozen sessions, once of which happens to be high hand promotion. The player winds up funding various promotions 6 times, but plays for high hands only once.

You are correct - "it's not close".

Oh, BTW, do you have any clue that Foxwoods keeps 5% of the dropped dollars?

I never said that the tribes would have anything to do with it at all. I'm just hoping for a closer/better alternative. I'm still steamed that I'm heading there tomorrow for 4 days and I have to say at the Hilton across the way because there are "no rooms available" for my comp play. But I could pay through the nose if I wanted to stay there. So this is my FU to Foxwoods!! Although I am getting a great rate and a free night in the suites due to my Hilton Honors membership.

PS - Fat Boy isn't getting that far. I think he'll be out of the race by January.

Are you Roger Goodell in creating a study to fit your agenda?

I'm referring to a landscape similar to what is occurring in Maryland presently where additional competition results in promos running throughout the week and not "one session over every six." In this reality you would be playing all six of these hypothetical sessions under an aggressive promo. If the question was of a promo such as this running one of every six days (as your hypothetical scenario does) then yes, it would be -EV and not even close. That wasn't what I was referring to however.

I think his point is that with a HH promo every 15 or 20 mins it becomes much more neutral EV in the long run because it happens so frequently. It's much less -EV than the BBJ which at FW is I believe a 1 in ~7 million chance of happening. Your long term return will be realized much faster in the HH promo. Just think of it like this, the room does a high hand every hand. Think about how quickly you will reach your overall return, and it will have long term 0EV as everyone gets the same amount of hands distributed to them over the long run.

easy way to look at it, every player gets a lotto ticket. they pull a number between 1 and 7m. This will be very -EV as you may never play enough hands to have your number called. If they pull a number every 15 mins, and the number is 1 in x (where x is the number of players in the room lets say 400 in a 40 table room like ML), if you play a 10 hour session you are talking a 1 in 10 chance. since everyone has the same odds, there really is no upside. its much less -EV but at best neutral EV

I'm not familiar with Maryland, but as Latimer has already pointed out, they drop two dollars instead of one there.

Landscape needs some pruning.

Thanks, but if you take the time to read some of the intervening posts, you would have realized that I already explained my point (with an assist going to MJ88).

Even after fat boy drops out, he has to lobby for his fellow candidates and stuff.

2017 and beyond looks better - fat boy becomes fatter lame duck, new governor gets elected, AC becomes more willing to cut a deal.

If you are from NYC, the closest alternatives are in PA. I'm not really a fan of them myself, but the commute is so much more comfortable.

A casino in northern NJ would of course be the nuts. But it is a political and economic quagmire.

They have been open 2 years and have always dropped $1. The additional dollar began this week I believe. $1000 all day, every weekday, every 20 minutes all because of competition over the past couple months. Prior to that competition being there those drops went to the greater -EV BBJ. I'm not sure how you can argue that competition hasn't provided a much greater option for the player with all those funds distributed to the player pool every day on the same drop over a BBJ.

From BravoPokerLive.com:

Monday Madness is Back. September 21st. New Time 10AM-10PM.
Giveaway $500 every 15 minutes.
Featuring DOUBLE MADNESS from 8pm to 10pm $1,000 every 15 minutes.

Thanks for the heads up. I plan to give it a go.

Sorry for the grunch, as this is probably mentioned somewhere in the thread, but it's not in the FAQs and I don't know how to search it well.

Here from the LHE forums to try to figure out how a hand at Foxwoods went down, specifically preflop. How many bets is the cap in the Foxwoods limit holdem game: 4 bets (BB plus 3 raises), or 5 bets (BB plust 4 raises)? Thanks!

It is 4 bets (3 raises) unless it is heads up, then it is unlimited. Not sure if the round has to start heads up for the cap to come off.

Not 100% sure but I think the street has to start HU to be uncapped.

As usual at Foxwoods, I've seen it enforced both ways. For the most part, I've seen it with the betting round having to start HU. But, the last time I played there, round started three handed and when one player dropped, the dealer let it go uncapped.

The way it works at FW is to look at the number of players *when the fourth bet goes in*. If there are only two people, it's uncapped. Three or more, it's capped.

For example, A bets, B raises, C calls, and A 3bets. If B raises that's a cap. If B calls and C raises, that's a cap. If B folds and C raises, it's only two players when the fourth bet goes in so that's not a cap.

I am not sure how all-ins work but I suspect that they get ignored if all-in before the 4th bet and on all subsequent streets.

Guy just went runner runner for K high SF and only 17 in pot. No high hand for you!

Hi everyone.

I plan on visiting your casino tomorrow for the first time in my life. I'm in the process of booking a room but I can't seem to figure out which room to book with what appears to be a great variety of various hotels, towers and resorts while the website is not being helpful at all by making it sound like every hotel is a separate entity from the actual casino.

All I want is a room closest to the poker room. Where should I be staying?

Thanks in advance.

Here is the Hotel info from the thread FAQ (located in 1st post of the thread):

Hotels:

There are 3 hotels within the structure: Great Cedar, Grand Pequot, and Fox Tower (formerly MGM). There is a 4th hotel on the property called Two Trees Inn. There is a shuttle which runs between Foxwoods and Two Trees every 10 minutes, 24/7. All hotels have wireless internet.

Here are some Pros/Cons to each:
Fox Tower – Generally accepted as the nicest hotel, having the most comfortable beds, large bathrooms, great showers. Rooms are around 400 sqft. It is the farthest from the poker room, taking most people around 15 mins to walk.
Grand Pequot – Has the largest rooms (450 sqft), most floors are recently renovated. Most centrally located on-property of the 3. Prices were raised when remodeled.
Great Cedar – Remodeled about 2 years ago. Closest to the poker room. Smaller then Pequot/Fox Tower (350 sqft). Tiny bathroom. Lots of noise from hallway/outside.
Two Trees – Generally the cheapest of them all. Motel quality. Inconvenience of waiting for the shuttle (or walking/driving).

There is no poker rate for the hotels. Hotel rates will vary for each person based on their player rating with the casino, as well as the usual factors (day of week, availability, etc). Floors will usually have no problem finding out what’s available for you if you inquire while playing. All quoted prices will have a $16.95/night resort fee added on (except Two Trees, which is $9.95) as well as 15% tax.

There are lots of hotels/motels within 15-20 mins driving distance around Foxwoods. A google search should reveal most of them. They will generally be much cheaper than staying on property. Search this thread for ‘priceline’ for tips on staying for cheap.

Thank you so much!

Exactly the answer I was looking for.