That is a well articulated and documented argument, krisb.

Haven't been to Buckeye yet, but wanted to point out that there are ways to "tighten up" the BJ without cheating/controlling cards. EG: dealer hits on soft 17, player can't double after split, adding more "decks" to the deal, etc. Don't know exactly how the games are/were structured, but little variances in the rules can definitely shift the edge toward the house. It's bad for the player, but I certainly wouldn't call it unethical.

Looking forward to my return to the area so that I can check out action. I was there right after the opening and it was a little slow. Sounds like things have heated up.

Krisdb.

Thanks for visiting and posting a report. Glad you enjoyed your time there.

Regarding Blackjack, I can understand how you would have this perception. Our technology is certified by Gaming Labs International (www.gaminglabs.com). GLI is the worldwide leader in casino equipment testing and certfication. Virtually all the equipment and technology in U.S. casinos (and many abroad) has been tested and certified by GLI.

Also, the operator has no control over the game whatsoever, other than to set the betting limits and basic game rules. As JJ mentions below, some game rules do effect house edge. The shuffle however, is through a GLI certified RNG, that operator has no ability to change or modify in any way shape or form. There is no ability for the operator to "tighten" up or "loosen" up the game based on the shuffle. Anything thing that happens is based on same laws of variance and randomness that are backbone to all casino games.

Your are correct that the regulations in charity gaming is generally more lax than casinos, but the fact that the operator chose to use our technology (which is tested and certified to same standards as regulated casinos) should give players security they expect and deserve.

Very true on rule variations being part of business and not unethical. Buckeye Charity Poker offers "Las Vegas" rules on their blackjack. Many Charity Festivals in the past offered various rules like "house wins on push", etc. Not the case here.




P.S. Also Rizzo from the WKNR ESPN Radio's "Really Big Show" is hosting a $50 Tournament out there on 8PM Jan 8th to benefit Greater Cleveland Peace Officers Memorial Society. Listen to his show for details or register on his site and a chance to win one of 18 seats to play against Rizzo and Hammer in two-table SNG freeroll at 6PM with 1st place of $1,000.

This must be some small time operation if losing $2000 to a single player sent them into a panic.

I guess if overhearing what somebody said didn't prove your point, this would be the clincher.

big ESPN tournament tonight anybody plan on attending ? they're supposed to be an invitation only tournament at 6pm however I have not heard of anyone receiving invitations anybody know anything? I'd like to play if I could

Chilie.

yes, two ESPN Radio events out there today with Hammer and Rizzo

6PM
20 Person $1,250 Freeroll. Rizzo gave away most of seats on the Really Big Show on ESPN WKNR. He and Hammer are gonna play against call in winners from the show, but I think Buckeye held back a few seats to give away to cash game players in the room between 2-6PM.

8PM
$50 Freezeout tourny with Rizzo and Hammer open to all. There are already 30 people registered for this, so likely this event will sell out, though they will seat as many as possible with alternates.

Cash games started out there today at 2PM as always. Action should be pretty good out there tonight with the .25/.50 PLO games and the 1/2 NL. Maybe even get a 1/2PLO gaming going.

see buckeye's website/facebook for more info

They just changed the buy ins on the PLO game, sometime today, limiting the buyin to $100.00. Now all the PLO players are going back to the horseshoe.....

They just changed the buy ins on the PLO game, sometime today, limiting the buyin to $100.00. Now all the PLO players are going back to the horseshoe.....

JJJ,

thanks for the feedback and as always thanks for playing at Buckeye. They appreciate your business.

Yes they changed the max buyin in the .25/.50 PLO game from 800 big blinds to 200 big blinds. The game started yesterday as usual at about 4 and was 10-handed when the tournament started at 7PM. 8 handed after that and not sure how long it ran into the night.

Buckeye has many new PLO players coming in to check out PLO for the first time or improve their game. Allowing experienced players to buy in for 800 bigs just gave them too much edge against the inexperienced field.

With 30-40 hands per hour in PLO and 200big blind max buyin, I am sure good PLO players have all the edge they need against newer PLO players at Buckeye.

The .25/.50 PLO at Buckeye is designed and offered for players to come and learn and improve their PLO skills in a super fun and freindly environement without having to invest $500-$1000 per session. For $50-$200, you can get all the PLO action you want.


Buckeye will soon start marketing and will be spreading a regular 1/2 PLO as well as as an O8 game. Those games will be for players who want to move up from the .25/.50 or already want to play a bigger PLO game. All bias aside, its hard to argue against how great the PokerPro tables are for Omaha games. PLO and especially 08


p.s. the $50 Sunday 7PM tourny had over 60 players last night. If that keeps growing like it has been, should soon reach 100 player fields. They are also going to to running a $150 or $200 tournament one night a week. There is different tournament out their everynight at 7PM.

JJJ

Poker room guys talked more about your comments.

They are going to start to offer and the charities will begin to market to their members and others a 1/2 PLO with $60 min and no max. this should grow to be one of the best 1/2 PLO games around town. You can be one of the first to play in it later this week.

.25/.50 PLO with $100 cap will still run everyday and help feed the bigger game from time to time.

Clearly you have never played the PLO at Buckeye. While your reasoning seems sound, it has no basis in fact. The players buying in for the smaller amounts have 20 plus years experience on the players buying in for 200 and above. Most players are buying in for 100 but will then rebuy for more as the game progresses and the stacks get bigger.

If you want to give inexperienced players an option to learn the game they should open another one of those stupid no risk tables.

The number of hands does not increase the edge the players have...and it is closer to 30 hands an hour, which a good dealer can achieve at the casino.

Buckeye has spread one game of 1/2 PLO that I am aware of, on the night of the ESPN tournament. 08 has gotten off once or twice. You are making some mighty big assumptions that you will now get a 1/2 PLO game off on a regular basis. These games have always been available as an option but dismissed by the players preferring the larger spread of the .50 game.

It is always maddening when people who know nothing about the games or the players make decisions to make the games "better" from their cushy office chairs.

Not true on the first and sort of not true on the second. I have played in the game but know you are a regular in the game (and appreciate your business and value your input), so you are there more than most and way way way more than me.

The basis for my assertion is generally accepted poker room management strategies. There is a reason you see almost no 800 big blind max buyin cash games below the 2/5 level throughout the U.S.



PLO game at Buckeye on PokerPro averages 30-33 hands per hour based on fact per detailed reports from the system.

I have it on pretty good authority that the 1/2 PLO game at the casino averages 17-20 hands per hour.

Your are right in your "edge" per hand does not change with more HPH, but as far as TOTAL amout of money moving from bad to good players, the number of hands per hour has a SIGNIFCANT impact on your hourly win rate. thats what I meant by "edge"


Most likely the new 1/2 PLO $60 min No Cap will be offered and run one or two nights per week to get it started and then grow from there, I never said "regular". I'll let all here know when and if that games starts running daily.

There will probably be some special comps for those players who help Buckeye get the game going. (above and the beyond the free full dinner Buckeye spreads every night for all players),

Plus $4 max rake, no BBJ drop, parking at front door, right off I90 and Bishop road. "It's a better game", as they say.

You are also helping support local Cleveland Charities when you play at Buckeye. This matters to some, not all poker players.

Also my chair is not as cushy as you think. Lots of airlines seats (they usually suck) mixed in with occasional poker chairs in poker rooms all over the world (wheels and height adjust are obv the best there).

Sign me up for this

As an infrequent visitor in the .50 PLO I'm not sure thus will have that large an impact. How many are really buying in max? I can't remember seeing a stack over 300, but then again I'm not there often and when I am I'm in and out early. Too old with too many responsibilities for too much fun



Sent from my DROID RAZR using 2+2 Forums

It is generally accepted poker room management strategy to screw with the one cash game that runs for 8-10 hours each day and generally has a must move second table during prime hours?

Point taken and you are correct. Its a tough decision either way. But looking at the long term interests of the growth of all PLO games at Buckeye, feels like the right tradeoff.

1/2 PLO Uncapped is set to go off a week from Saturday at 3PM - Jan 26th.

Players in that game will all be served a freshly grilled Steak dinner at 6PM.

Staff in the room is already creating list for that game. Looks like we will have two tables minimum. You can reserve your seat now in the game by seeing one of them. Should be a pretty wild day of PLO.

Hammer and Rizzo on ESPN Really Big Show might have some other cool things for their listeners as they talk about the new 1/2 Uncapped PLO game on the show next week.


Highland Hornets Booster Club from Medina will be holding the festival that weekend. This will support the travel expenses for their traveling Baseball team. They will I am sure appreciate as much support as possible for their festival that weekend.

FYI. Buckeye moved start time of this 1/2 PLO game to 1PM. They already have list for one table, starting to build interest list for second game. see floor if interested.

Is there a seat fee? The website says 100% of the rake goes to the charity.

NO seat fee. They rake cash game pots and there is a tournament fee included in any tournament

Anyone know what the blackjack rules are at Buckeye? I don't see them posted on the website. I'm not sure what 'Vegas' rules are since many casinos offer different rules.

Sorry... The key rules at Buckeye are Ties are a push and BlackJack pays 1.5:1.

It was the norm for many locally run Chariity Blackjack games in Northeast OH that the house won all ties and BJ paid 1:1.


1/2 PLO Game with no cap kicks off this Saturday at 1PM. See room to reserve seat. Freshly grilled steak dinner for all players who help get the game going.

Also New $150 Tournament starting out there this Thursday. "Big Poker Thursday" Sponsored by Division of Poker Radio Show on ESPN.

Very good structure.

What's the rake on the $150 buy in?

All current tournaments including the new $150 with 30 minute levels this Thursday at 7PM rake flat 20%

This is all inclusive. so no dealer add on to get more chips, no 3% deduct from prize pool, and no tips at the end. So pretty competitive rate vis-a-vis standard weekly tournaments in casinos.

Also keep in mind that rake paid at Buckeye Charity Poker is helping support a local Cleveland charity.

For this Thursday, Festival is being run by Highland Hornets High School (Medina) Booster club supporting their traveling baseball team.

Supporting local charity might be important for some poker players for some others not so much. Comeptitive rake either way imo.

Thursday night $150 should grow quickly to be pretty good tournament. Would love for you to come check it out.

Played here last Sat in the .25/.50 PLO for first time for a few hours. Enjoyed myself, players and staff was very nice. Game was good, venue was fairly clean and felt safe as far as security, etc.

My only suggestions as a first time PokerPro player is the following: (not sure if it's even possible)
-Can you do an autofold preflop? I understand the complaints against it, but it's no different then when people look at cards and get up and walk away to pee in a hand-dealt game.
Timeclock seems a bit long. 45secs is a bit excessive. Can it be cut to 30 secs or maybe a time bank?
-When going from one table to another of same stake/game, anyway to make someone sit with same stack or greater to stop short-stackers?
- Option to request seat change from within the game?
- Auto top/off? Like automatically add to your stack if your below a certain number of BB's?
- Maybe a camera in the corner of the hallway to the bathroom? That was the one area I felt uneasy since it's kind of isolated and you take the corner and it's no-mans land.

Any chance of spreading Mix Games, RAZZ, Badugi, etc?

Also, it's the same degens at every venue and people seem to know each other. Though I was never in this location before, I easily knew 10+ people there, 3 of which was in the PLO game. EVERYONE hates the young guy with the beanie (screenname something Moneymaker). Super scummy guy that goes back to Mountaineer's best days. From what I heard, it's so bad that people have all sat out before when he's sat at their table. From past experience, he's an angle shooter, trouble maker and generally bad person. Why not 86 guys like this from the room? I could cut the tension anytime he was around the table. The few hours I was there he created drama by trying to board jump multiple people, etc.

I played in the PLO game tonight and it was a good one. I second Witzo's suggestions above for the most part, especially with doing things that speed up the game. However, I haven't seen the trouble from Moneymaker that some others have seen. Signing in on every waiting list, none of which were more than three deep, and then walking right out the door seemed bad, but once he was in the game, he was chip spewing, which I definitely don't mind.

The big suggestion I would have is trying to do things to keep the people who bust out of the nightly tournament early in the cash games late. It looked like a decent tournament tonight but the room cleared out gradually after people busted out.

Why not offer limit and no-limit microlimits? You have electronic tables that take extremely little manpower to moderate - open it up. Lower the rake considerably and offer $1/$2 limit, $2/$4 limit, $.25/$.50 nl, $.50/$1 nl, etc.

People bust out of the tournament and go play blackjack a little bit I saw, which I'm sure is good for the room that night, but why not keep people in the room and keep people coming back with some lower end cash games with discounted rake?