Yeah, what a terrible ordeal the dealers have to withstand. Why does it seem like that I'm the only one who realizes that the dealers will have a much easier time if they stopped complaining and actually tried to improve their dealing skills?

Stan:

A player goes all in in the BB, loses the hand, goes to get more money and comes back 2 hands later behind the button. Does he have to post? if yes, how much and WHY?

2) player UTG goes all in, loses, comes back behind the button. How much does he owe, if anything, and WHY? (I'm looking for a logical explanation, based on the written rules, as to how the apparently obvious solutions to these two situations are reconcilable).

smallblind

Sent you a PM Stan

At the Borgata, the rule appears to be:
1) Posts SB (dead)
2) Posts SB (dead) and BB (live)

I guess the rule is that when the button passes you, you have to post the blinds that you missed.

Where those the answers you were expecting? Are you getting a different ruling on the same situation at the Borgata or a different casino?

The answer to 2) is clearly stated in the rulebook. A player who goes all in and misses his blinds is considered a new player with regard to the blinds, i.e. he only has to post the BB, just like a new player would.

There is nothing explicitly written about case 1. But I think that making the player post the missed SB would contradict the rule for case 2 which considers him to be just like a new player. And new players don't have to post the SB. Hence, a player who goes broke on the BB and then returns behind the button should not have to post anything.

The other solution would be to make players who go all in and lose and miss both blinds, to post both blinds.

But as it currently exists, the rules seem incompatible.

Stan is a Mod now? missed when this happened...congratulations...well-deserved..now we all have to behave ourselves

ooooh can't wait to be back tomorrow night : D

Hmm... I never knew that. I guess I've never seen that situation happen before, or it was handled incorrectly when it did happen.

Stan isn't a mod. That shade of green seems to be for sponsored representatives. I assume that because the Borgata is advertising on 2+2, that Stan gets the green color, and is able to post game-reports at any time. Previously, Stan wasn't able to post game reports unless someone in this thread asked for one.

I'm not seeing the incompatibility.

We have the explicit rule about a player who goes broke UTG and then misses his big blind. Comes in as new player. Fine.

Then we have the "first" case where player goes broke on BB. If he then takes 10 mins to hit the ATM and then ends up missing the next big blind, same case as the UTG player - new player situation.

If he hasn't missed his next big blind, then we have the "just the small blind" case.

Here's the specific text from Blind Placement 2.c.:

A player who goes broke and wishes to re-enter the game shall be treated as a new player with regard to the blinds, once he has missed his big blind.

So until he misses his next big blind, you'll see the same rules apply as if he just stepped away to go pee or whatever and gotten a Small Blind button.


There should probably be an explicit rule about missing the small blind. And I don't think everybody knows about when broke players are treated as new players for blind posting purposes.

While we're at it, maybe add rules regarding:

• the bring-in in PLO;
• the "size" of the SB for calculating pot-size bets; does "dead" SB count for pot pre-flop?
• whether the winner of a Kill pot in required to post the kill if he is getting up to end his session or moving from a must-move game;
• what happens when cards fall on the floor and what happens depending on who picks them up (can hand still play? any fallen cards live? do they need to be taken out of play to get checked?);
• clarification of the current version of the "electronic devices" rule

and probably other things as well.

I just don't see why it's fair to not have to post the SB when you miss both, but have to post the SB when you only miss the SB. In both cases you pay the BB, but in only one do you pay the SB also.

Regarding the kill, Stan has said somewhere in this thread that a player who wins a kill pot may choose to leave the game, and he can't be forced to put the dead blind in the pot.

And I can't resist adding, that if/when the rulebook is ever revised, rule #1 should be: NO SMOKING IN THE BATHROOM.

Stan/Tab, did you guys already close up online registration for the 100k on Saturday?

Hey,
Did the bbj hit yet? Also, can someone post link to live game report?

Thanks
Chris

Poker live data:

http://www.theborgata.com/poker_live_data.cfm

You could say it's "fair" because the broke player who misses the BB is essentially defined as a "new player" Yes, that player does get some sort of discount compared to a player who just happened to miss both blinds. On the other hand, the player who just went broke did just go broke. *other items about "right/wrong" not mentioned to keep this simple.

I don't really see it as a "fairness" issue. It just a rule that has some thought to it, and it could have gone a different way without it being a big deal. It just needed to be made a particular way so people could follow it consistently. A lot of rules are like that.

FWIW, the rules requests I made weren't really about "what" the rule is - I can tell you what the rule usually is. It was more like a "seems like something that could be written in the rule book."

Can't wait until this smoking thing becomes a non-issue that never gets mentioned here again.