I think the problem I have with this spot is if I 4b not all-in and then get shoved on I'm not feeling good about the call. If I flat then I'm playing OOP.

Also if the stacks are deeper like 150bb then its even tougher. if the stacks are 150bb how do you play if you 4B and then get 5bet or 5b shoved?? TY

PokerStars - $3.30+$0.20|15/30 Ante 4 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 35.87 BB (VPIP: 36.36, PFR: 2.08, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 55)
Hero (UTG): 48.97 BB
UTG+1: 38.97 BB (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 14.29, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP: 70.77 BB (VPIP: 34.55, PFR: 21.15, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 55)
MP+1: 98.3 BB (VPIP: 12.43, PFR: 10.93, 3Bet Preflop: 8.19, Hands: 751)
MP+2: 60.77 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)
CO: 54.77 BB (VPIP: 28.57, PFR: 28.57, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
BTN: 98.3 BB (VPIP: 16.55, PFR: 13.70, 3Bet Preflop: 9.25, Hands: 1,394)
SB: 93.3 BB (VPIP: 14.29, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)

9 players post ante of 0.13 BB, SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.7 BB) Hero has Q Q

Hero raises to 3 BB, UTG+1 raises to 5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, SB calls 4.5 BB, fold, [b]Hero??

shove is still fine here: QQ+, AK.
I don't like playing oop 3 handed either here.

Shove these 50BB stacks against unknowns and expect calls from AT+.

You could make a case for a "just call" against regs but this guy may well not know how tight you are from this position. The sample is small but 3 out of 7 passive VPIP is a bit unusual from a good player who is going to have a "passive gap" between his VPIP and PFR of max 6%.

4b with plan to get it in

cheers for the response guys.

what would you do in this spot if the stacks were 150bb, you raise and face a 3b shove? this is the spot that I seem to always run into AA,KK. maybe I'm just remembering the losses

Ok so at what stack size are you lookin to raise instead of 4b shove?

Maybe something like 50 BB effective would be the border, so you could do a reasonable 3-bet to maybe 12 BBs. I don't like to put in more than 1/4 of my stack without going all in. 60BBs would be better.

While it's true that here you can 4-bet to 9 BBs without putting in more than1/4 of the effective stack, I prefer a 3x raise OOP.

With game flow 9BBs might be nice against a reg as a bluff if you know that they would think it must be AA (I don't know how you know they think that, but you sometimes do).