Hi guys just wanted to get some thoughts on Stars bringing in antes from level 1 in 180 turbos (and a tonne of other structures presumably to increase their rake inflow $ $ $). Basically how should I be adjusting? Presumably increasing AF% and opening a wider range, being more active in the early levels of play and increasing steals/resteals?

Personally I don't much like this change as I think it will be harder to ISO fish with a higher player to pot ratio but I guess it also puts more pressure on weaker players. Hypothetically (unfortunately) if I was playing optimally in these 180s before and after introduction of antes from level 1 would my edge be decreased after ante introduction from start?

Any further thoughts, etc on this much appreciated, thanks!

Just wondered if anyone has put out any strategy content or new things to adapt to early game with antes involved?

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Hi! Couldn't find any topics about changes in SNGs.

I think that the changes are very good in case there should be less nits, people should make their ranges wider earlier in the game. True?

Also i heard some opinions that its bad, because Turbo tournaments will be even more turbo than it was before the new structure. In that case the variance will be even bigger than it is now (and now its huge in 180s. i.e. lets say in 2.5$/8$ 180mans its almost normal to have 300BI swings.)

How wide opening ranges should be from late positios? Does ante make profitable to steal wide early in the tournament?

Variance definitely higher now, stealing becomes more important for sure although I don't know how wide stealing range should be early on (except wider than before ), less nits isn't a good thing!

I love it! Greatest change I can remember!

It is a very bad change, specially when applied to regular tournaments.

People that wanted fast paced short duration tournaments played turbo. People that enjoy longer tournaments played regular.

There is really no logical perspective for this change.

They also completly removed time banks, which is a very bad idea.

I am a 6max reg player and I am seriously considering moving to MTTSNGs now. These changes for me mean that HUDnit 20 tabling 5/4 players will have to actually play some postflop poker or get blinded quickly.

I played a few MTTSNGs yesterday and found that the nits really struggled and got blinded quicker. The edge was definitely in the poker players favour.

My view strat wise on this is practice postflop skills and open a little wider than normal. I couldn't believe how bad the nits were postflop.

18m turbo player here. Have some trouble adjusting still, but I think I'm getting back on track after some sessions.

Observations so far:
- nits gotta hate, since they will get blinded off quicker.
- aggression is the key so much more now
- much lighter opens
- this will mean a wider 3bet range, both bluff3b as value3b
- since stack to pot ratio is getting smaller, people are stacking off otf much lighter
- definitely a lot of betsizing tells still now, since people are looking for what is "standard" play in every blind level. This means highly exploitable if we pay attention to this

It doesn't make a difference on the non turbo 180s. You're still able to get ITM with 50BB and not be CL. The FTs are still played very deep.

nobody played 5/4 and if they did they would not be 20 tabling as they would not beat the games. your a supposed aggressive reg and you cannot comprehend why its good to play against nits?

This! I have FT with these antes and always had at least 40bbs. Still not always big stack either.

donno what stacks to raise or to push... stack pot ratio is soo *** bad postflop + the ante size is really big.

I think that is a bad change, we can expect winrate to drastically drop. the more money in the middle from beginning, the more it becomes a luck game.

i guess new chareholder politics, supporting fish..


since 500 games each session looks like this... that is preetty bad imo!!!

You're referring to turbos I suppose.

sure!

ps: a little wider???
we can nearly open twice as much in the early stages as before!!!

Just to be sure. I don't grind turbos and I enjoyed the changes made on non turbos so that's why I was making sure.

Anyway, my study group has mainly turbo players and they pretty much hated the changes too.

Of course many people hate the changes. It's because they thought they had a winning formula and now they need to think about it and evolve.

What I think is funny is all the people who, when Baard was asking how people felt about antes, didn't voice their terrible opinion at the time, and therefore the response was overwhelming positive, and now after it's done all the nits come out of the woodwork and say how much they don't like it. You had your chance to speak up and you didn't. You just kept assuming nothing would happen because nothing had happened for 3 years. You had a chance to post all these ridiculous arguments about stacks becoming shorter (makes no sense at all), less edge because of stack to pot ratio (massively outweighed by how much more you make when people don't defend wide, aka nits) faster tournament times (didn't happen, tournaments stay about the same length), how less "poker" will be played now (hard to say you're playing poker when you fold 95% of hands) and how small postflop edges are with 25bb stacks (don't know how this even got brought up and it's the most absurd statement of them all). Recreational players and solid grinders who are comfortable playing wider ranges love these changes, and the nits who want to fold until they can just follow their shove chart hate it. Several people keep talking about how good players will win less now. Good players will win MORE because they will adapt, or were already playing a strategy that's correct for this. Bad players will certainly win less, and I'm ok with that.

Hey dastinger .. I play 180 man turbos can i go in you study group

Yo. It wouldn't be a problem for me but we're a group of players staked by the same guys and that's why we study together. Sorry but we can't open it to more players.

Try this thread:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/19...3/index30.html

QFT

the biggest value comes from recreationals regging more games/playing them habitually now becuase 180s were as boring as poker can be for the first 30 minutes