What about 27$s and let ppl buy in with steps tickets...

^^ great idea

ooh, now you're talking. Nice idea sir.

wooow genius itt

thx for the ... it would also revitalize steps

(please do not tell me to move this to the mtt thread because that is were steps should be dicussed, the point is let ppl use step tickets for 180 (or acctually whatever) mttsng)

such a good idea eldorian, and in logical progress what about 82 180's?

Doubt there is the traffic for them.

agree they wont run at all, maybe some sort of hyper 82 90man or something but doubt they will run aswell

What about change the reg speed blind levels to 10 mins instead of 15 mins?

At least the 10/20, 15/30, 25/50 and 50/100 to 10 mins and the rest 12 mins.

We can play deep stacked as well in the latest stages, they wouldnt become "flipaments" at all.

I think they wont be any worse then 60s if people can register with step tickets.

It`s not very pleasing to look for empty seats when you 20+ table sngs. Is there any chance of adding the final table background to 18mans ?

I mean, if you can't tell by looking at the number ofplayers and the stack sizes whether a 2 table SNG has reached the final table, you're surely playing above your optimum number of tables

Please add a side comp for 45-180 mans (like the TLB and BOP).

They've had plans for this since the thread started now stop being so impatient and give them at least 2 years to engage a brain cell!! jeeez some people expect so much!

8.80+R 180s, please and thank you!

Hi Everyone,

I'm moving to a new role within PokerStars so this will be my last post in the SNG forums. Thanks for all your comments and suggestions over the last few months. They've been very informative and I've enjoyed reading them all.

Until a permanent replacement is in place, PokerStars Steve will be posting in this thread.

Steve Walmsley
SNG Manager

the $60 180 should be changed to $54 so people can use 2xStep2 tickets to enter.

7.5$ 90man ran awful. there was no traffic at all. maybe run a trial on sundays though with 5+r or 8+r.

I don't think they ran very well because they were the exact same prizepool as the 3r 180's and most of the regs here boycotted them. We continuously asked for a higher 180 rebuy, and in turn they doubled the buy-in and cut the field in half :s

thoughts on starting $3r 180s at 25-50 blinds to help speed them up just a bit.

no leave the structures the way they are, why would you want to do this ? too much value at 10/20 and 15/30.

no u

search>my name> posts containing "zoom"

dont think youve brought anything up i havent addressed adequately but i glossed over it if you did


if i expect to make additional income vs my current for a brief period during the initial introduction phase when zoom sngs will be their juiciest and noone "gets it" yet, but i would never introduce the format at all to stars if it were my call, who is more likely to be the shortsighted one

had another thought dunno if anyone is gonna like it or not, what about adding an extra level or two onto the rebuy period ? would increase prizepoolsand make stacks slightly deeper aswell.

EDIT: I'm linking this now so I don't forget later, I assume this is the post you mean (and its two child posts). http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&postcount=150


I will make a "point by point" post quoting your previous posts later maybe, but here's something that maybe can get started. I hate using a lot of words but when I tried to explain some ideas I noticed some people didn't understand me? So I kinda masques de Z'ed it, sorry guys. Okay here goes.

---

Suppose right now in every tournament as currently offered with 5 minute levels, that 5 10/20 hands, 5 15/30 hands, 5 25/50 hands, etc. are being played per level. (The exact number isn't exactly important, you can replace it with N hands, or even 5 hands of 10/20 and 6 hands of 15/30 or whatever.)

Say you play 180s normally like you would on any given day. Each tournament has some Xth hand where you busted out. So say your first tournament you lasted 40 hands. Next tournament you lasted 5 hands. Next tournament you lasted 15 hands. Next tournament you lasted 80 hands. Whatever.

Now suppose they implemented ZOOM-180s in the following form which I consider likely for PS to do: first hour only zoom, 2 min levels in first hour, everything else exactly the same as before. Notice that because zoom is dealing hands 2.5x as fast, the same 5 hands per level is being dealt in 2 minutes instead of the usual 5 minutes. Then for example, the first tourney you play that day, (with that same 40 hands) it would take you 16 minutes instead of 40 minutes to bust. The second tournament (with the same 5 hands) would take 2 minutes instead of 5 minutes. The third tournament (with the same 15 hands) would take 6 minutes instead of 15 minutes. The fourth tournament (with the same 80 hands) would take 44 minutes instead of 80 minutes (because minutes after the first hour would be normal speed.) Notice you could play all these tournaments much faster, EVEN IF your tabling capacity for rush tables is way lower than for normal tables. Basically the only thing you need to take away from ZOOM is: zoom is a device that makes it faster to play through an mtt.

Another way to see this is, imagine that on stars tmrw they decided that they will deal 180s really slowly... that is, the cards will come out really slow. People would actually table more (get more tables up at a time) because they can handle more (fish and regs alike) and they will register for more. Does this mean that this is a good idea? Zoom is essentially the same thing as being able to deal the tournament faster, and this is a boon for poker the way that better dealing speeds were. ****, right now even ZyngaPoker is dealing the cards faster than PS.

==========

Now again I want to be very clear about where my "support" lies. I DONT CARE. I am merely WARNING you guys that zoom mttsngs is the very likely direction for PS and I would even say for all poker sites long long term. Why? Here are some other important points -- some good, some bad:

1. FISH LOVE FASTER GAMES. Period. That's why turbos kill normals in terms of played -- its not just the regs, its the fish. Fish LOVE faster games. They wanna gamble! They will definitely trial these and in the long run they will slowly build a following. More and more regs will eventually switch over. Now, I could see them tanking, if like, the social aspects of poker become very key. But it doesn't seem like fish care THAT much about chatting while playing (even though many do prefer it).

2. Compacting the mtt format is going to create more grindability, that is going to create more competition on PS and thus more rake. Right now SNGs and cash games are way way WAY more competitive than mtts. This could change if MTTs becomes easier to "grind".

3. You *are* right that zoom longterm is "bad for regs" in the sense that any current 180 regs, especially bad ones, will not be able to win as much due to the increased competition. Part of the reason is the current barrier to entry to 180s. In order to grind mtts you have to be willing to sit infront of your computer all day or its not even worth it. This is represented in the following equation: Suppose X is your max tabling capacity. If it takes you 1 hour to get to X by regging, and 1 hour to go from X to 0 tables, then in N hours you have played N-1 hours worth of peak-capacity play (So, say you have a cap of 20 tables, and you play 6 hours, you have played 100 tables.) This is precisely the barrier to entry that is preventing a lot of players from being casual regs -- because this equation really disincentivizes short sessions. The fact that people in ZOOM can get in quick hit and run style sessions in, is going to make a lot more people serious about grinding 180s. Here's how it will break down in my opinion when the population increases, relative to what it is now: There will be more fish, there will be way more "bad" regs. And bad regs will win quite less. Good regs will win slightly more.

People aren't going to bust 2.5x as fast just because hands are being dealt 2.5x as fast.

Play is going to be waaaaaay tighter.

Also, a recreational player who plays say 6 regular tables because they can't keep up with the action of more but get bored playing less is probably just going to 1-table ZOOM because they'll always have a hand in front of them so don't need any more to keep them occupied.

Likewise once the ZOOM part of the tournament is done and normal play resumes, they're just going to continue to 1-table that because they'll be near the end game and won't want another ZOOM table requiring action every 3 seconds distracting them from the game they're deep in.

Stars will make less rake by implementing ZOOM MTTSNG's, that i'm pretty sure of.

Recreational players will enjoy it at first but will soon get fed up of burning their money off at much more of an alarming rate.

Recreational players don't just "want to gamble", a hell of a lot of them like to get a "bang for their buck".