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*** Official MTTSNG quick checkup thread *** *** Official MTTSNG quick checkup thread ***

10-18-2012 , 03:54 PM
Not sure if this is the right forum to post this question on.

Is it standard to include the antes when determining how many blinds we have left? I see a lot of regular posters talk in terms of blinds, say 7 or so, but when you take the antes and divide them between the blinds (1/3 to sb 2/3 to bb) you may come up with 3 'effective' big blinds. Is this just a negligable nomenclature difference? Or will it actually change the icm ranges?

I have been instructed to do that calculation in my head and adjust my ranges as a result. Is this something everyone does but calls it by another name?
10-25-2012 , 07:16 AM
Are 18 man in this topic or in SNG Strategy topic... I dont see anyone talking about 18 man 2 table SNGs, please direct me where to go.
10-25-2012 , 07:38 AM
As far as i know 18man get discussed in STT Strategy.
10-25-2012 , 12:16 PM
Figured MP2 was pushing wide and CO had amassed a stack with some absurd hands, so thought this was a snap but friend on IM says I can find a better spot. Pretty sure this is an insta, right?

    [hand_history]Poker Stars, $7.34 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14291991

    Hero (BB): 3,415 (5.7 bb)
    UTG+2: 3,284 (5.5 bb)
    MP1: 8,024 (13.4 bb)
    MP2: 2,430 (4.1 bb)
    MP3: 2,940 (4.9 bb)
    CO: 17,251 (28.8 bb)
    BTN: 7,570 (12.6 bb)
    SB: 3,427 (5.7 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with T T
    2 folds, MP2 raises to 2,380 and is all-in, MP3 folds, CO raises to 17,201 and is all-in, 2 folds, Hero calls 2,765 and is all-in
    10-27-2012 , 10:49 AM
    ^^i'm calling
    10-27-2012 , 04:08 PM
    Quote:
    says I can find a better spot
    Nope, this is the spot. Call.
    10-29-2012 , 03:35 PM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Pedro Brazil
    180 man, this is bit too wide, right?

      Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (300/600 blinds, 50 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #13851122

      : 3,252 (5.4 bb)
      BTN: 5,064 (8.4 bb)
      SB: 5,811 (9.7 bb)
      BB: 6,540 (10.9 bb)
      UTG+2: 13,369 (22.3 bb)
      MP1: 1,094 (1.8 bb)
      MP2: 8,571 (14.3 bb)
      Hero (MP3): 6,620 (11 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 2 A
      3 folds, Hero raises to 6,570 and is all-in




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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by dbcoop
      For me its too wide with ur stack and position.
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by XMenCypher
      yep, too wide
      Hi Guys, so what is OP's shoving range here? A9o +QJs +88?
      11-01-2012 , 06:22 PM
      villain is a random , i 3bet him 2 hands in a row this the 3rd , thoughts ?
      ever folding this even though its for 50bbs?

        Poker Stars, $4.10 Buy-in (50/100 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
        Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14384911

        UTG+2: 930 (9.3 bb)
        MP1: 4,505 (45.1 bb)
        MP2: 2,890 (28.9 bb)
        MP3: 3,933 (39.3 bb)
        Hero (CO): 5,265 (52.7 bb)
        BTN: 2,410 (24.1 bb)
        SB: 1,270 (12.7 bb)
        BB: 3,611 (36.1 bb)

        Preflop: Hero is CO with Q Q
        UTG+2 folds, MP1 raises to 233, MP2 folds, MP3 calls 233, Hero raises to 700, 3 folds, MP1 calls 467, MP3 raises to 3,933 and is all-in, Hero raises to 5,265 and is all-in, MP1 folds

        Flop: (8,716) Q 7 J (2 players, 2 are all-in)
        Turn: (8,716) 3 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
        River: (8,716) A (2 players, 2 are all-in)

        Spoiler:
        Results: 8,716 pot
        Final Board: Q 7 J 3 A
        MP3 showed A A and won 8,716 (4,783 net)
        Hero showed Q Q and lost (-3,933 net)



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        11-02-2012 , 07:04 AM
        Nah never folding that. nh
        11-13-2012 , 10:07 PM
        45 man. Is this a atc shove? If i set the vilain calling 13.3%, the minimun cev is 200, 1 big blind that is. Is that a passable edge? I actually dont think vilain is calling that wide.

        PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.5 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

        CO (t2880)
        Button (t2825)
        Hero (SB) (t3610)
        BB (t3945)
        UTG (t1316)
        UTG+1 (t1200)
        MP1 (t4250)
        MP2 (t3015)

        Hero's M: 7.22

        Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, A
        6 folds

        Total pot: t400
        11-14-2012 , 04:33 PM
        Is this a standard all in?

        PokerStars - $0.91+$0.09|400/800 NL - Holdem - 9 players
        Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

        MP: 5,621.00
        MP+1: 7,100.00
        LP: 4,595.00
        CO: 6,868.00
        Hero (BTN): 7,380.00
        SB: 6,048.00
        BB: 12,534.00
        UTG: 12,267.00
        UTG+1: 4,125.00

        MP posts ante 75.00, MP+1 posts ante 75.00, LP posts ante 75.00, CO posts ante 75.00, Hero posts ante 75.00, SB posts ante 75.00, BB posts ante 75.00, UTG posts ante 75.00, UTG+1 posts ante 75.00, SB posts SB 400.00, BB posts BB 800.00

        Pre Flop: (1875.00) Hero has Q K

        fold, fold, MP raises to 1,600.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 7,305.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, MP calls 3,946.00 and is all-in

        Flop: (12967.00, 2 players) 7 3 2

        Turn: (12967.00, 2 players) T

        River: (12967.00, 2 players) 9

        Spoiler:
        MP shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 91%, Flop 100%, Turn 100%)
        Hero shows Q K (High Card, King) (Pre 9%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
        MP wins 12,967.00
        11-16-2012 , 06:51 AM
        ^

        No
        11-17-2012 , 01:18 PM
        Do I valuebet this river here ? I feel like draws obv arnt paying anything and its only PP's and its possible for him to c/r me here as well

          Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
          Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14606081

          MP3: 1,500 (75 bb)
          Hero (CO): 1,490 (74.5 bb)
          BTN: 1,470 (73.5 bb)
          SB: 1,320 (66 bb)
          BB: 1,590 (79.5 bb)
          UTG+2: 3,130 (156.5 bb)
          MP1: 1,500 (75 bb)
          MP2: 1,500 (75 bb)

          Preflop: Hero is CO with T T
          4 folds, Hero raises to 60, BTN folds, SB calls 50, BB calls 40

          Flop: (180) J 5 J (3 players)
          SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 80, SB folds, BB calls 80

          Turn: (340) 3 (2 players)
          BB checks, Hero bets 160, BB calls 160

          River: (660) 3 (2 players)
          BB checks, Hero checks




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          11-18-2012 , 09:37 AM
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Pedro Brazil
          45 man. Is this a atc shove? If i set the vilain calling 13.3%, the minimun cev is 200, 1 big blind that is. Is that a passable edge? I actually dont think vilain is calling that wide.

          PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 3.5 Tournament, 100/200 Blinds 25 Ante (8 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

          CO (t2880)
          Button (t2825)
          Hero (SB) (t3610)
          BB (t3945)
          UTG (t1316)
          UTG+1 (t1200)
          MP1 (t4250)
          MP2 (t3015)

          Hero's M: 7.22

          Preflop: Hero is SB with 7, A
          6 folds

          Total pot: t400
          Just raise. No need to shove with any hand here. 450 should do it.
          11-18-2012 , 09:40 AM
          Quote:
          Originally Posted by Yakmelk
          Do I valuebet this river here ? I feel like draws obv arnt paying anything and its only PP's and its possible for him to c/r me here as well

            Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
            Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14606081

            MP3: 1,500 (75 bb)
            Hero (CO): 1,490 (74.5 bb)
            BTN: 1,470 (73.5 bb)
            SB: 1,320 (66 bb)
            BB: 1,590 (79.5 bb)
            UTG+2: 3,130 (156.5 bb)
            MP1: 1,500 (75 bb)
            MP2: 1,500 (75 bb)

            Preflop: Hero is CO with T T
            4 folds, Hero raises to 60, BTN folds, SB calls 50, BB calls 40

            Flop: (180) J 5 J (3 players)
            SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 80, SB folds, BB calls 80

            Turn: (340) 3 (2 players)
            BB checks, Hero bets 160, BB calls 160

            River: (660) 3 (2 players)
            BB checks, Hero checks




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            Yes, valuebet. I would expect him to donk the river with a boat. You can bet and be pretty happy that if you're raised, he's probably not bluffing and you can safely fold. Ace high will be stubborn here. Bet 250.
            11-18-2012 , 09:42 AM
            Quote:
            Originally Posted by Kovacs
            Is this a standard all in?

            PokerStars - $0.91+$0.09|400/800 NL - Holdem - 9 players
            Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

            MP: 5,621.00
            MP+1: 7,100.00
            LP: 4,595.00
            CO: 6,868.00
            Hero (BTN): 7,380.00
            SB: 6,048.00
            BB: 12,534.00
            UTG: 12,267.00
            UTG+1: 4,125.00

            MP posts ante 75.00, MP+1 posts ante 75.00, LP posts ante 75.00, CO posts ante 75.00, Hero posts ante 75.00, SB posts ante 75.00, BB posts ante 75.00, UTG posts ante 75.00, UTG+1 posts ante 75.00, SB posts SB 400.00, BB posts BB 800.00

            Pre Flop: (1875.00) Hero has Q K

            fold, fold, MP raises to 1,600.00, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 7,305.00 and is all-in, fold, fold, MP calls 3,946.00 and is all-in

            Flop: (12967.00, 2 players) 7 3 2

            Turn: (12967.00, 2 players) T

            River: (12967.00, 2 players) 9

            Spoiler:
            MP shows K K (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 91%, Flop 100%, Turn 100%)
            Hero shows Q K (High Card, King) (Pre 9%, Flop 0%, Turn 0%)
            MP wins 12,967.00
            Here, you are effectively calling a 7BB shove (since you have near 0 FE) from MP, with players left to act. You should fold this. He might even have a stronger hand than normal here because he minraised instead of shoved.
            11-20-2012 , 03:59 PM
            standard ?

              Poker Stars, $4.10 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #14637201

              MP3: 1,352 (45.1 bb)
              CO: 1,070 (35.7 bb)
              BTN: 1,317 (43.9 bb)
              SB: 1,518 (50.6 bb)
              Hero (BB): 1,622 (54.1 bb)
              UTG+1: 1,055 (35.2 bb)
              UTG+2: 1,122 (37.4 bb)
              MP1: 6,737 (224.6 bb)
              MP2: 3,362 (112.1 bb)

              Preflop: Hero is BB with Q Q
              7 folds, SB raises to 60, Hero raises to 180, SB raises to 420, Hero raises to 1,622 and is all-in, SB calls 1,098 and is all-in

              Flop: (3,036) J 6 T (2 players, 2 are all-in)
              Turn: (3,036) 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
              River: (3,036) Q (2 players, 2 are all-in)

              Spoiler:
              Results: 3,036 pot
              Final Board: J 6 T 6 Q
              SB showed A A and lost (-1,518 net)
              Hero showed Q Q and won 3,036 (1,518 net)



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              11-23-2012 , 12:14 PM
              Yes, standard. Especially BVB - he should be that little bit wider.
              12-05-2012 , 01:38 PM
              Quick check $3r 180. Villain is an unknown, played loose so far.


              [converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $3.19 Buy-in (25/50 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
              Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

              CO: 7,415 (148.3 bb)
              BTN: 3,075 (61.5 bb)
              SB: 3,290 (65.8 bb)
              Hero (BB): 2,445 (48.9 bb)
              UTG+1: 4,175 (83.5 bb)
              UTG+2: 1,130 (22.6 bb)
              MP1: 2,620 (52.4 bb)
              MP2: 2,945 (58.9 bb)
              MP3: 2,855 (57.1 bb)

              Preflop: Hero is BB with K K
              UTG+1 raises to 100, 6 folds, SB calls 75, Hero raises to 453, UTG+1 calls 353, SB folds

              Flop: (1,006) 3 A 4 (2 players)
              12-09-2012 , 07:53 AM
              I've got some questions

              How similar are the ranges people use in 180 man and 45man?

              How big is the difference in 3.5$ and 7$ 45mans? (example with ROI would be nice.)

              How beatable are the turbo sngs in ongame? They run so fast that i think they should be considered hypers.
              12-09-2012 , 09:58 AM
              Quote:
              Originally Posted by Proudwalker
              I've got some questions

              How similar are the ranges people use in 180 man and 45man?

              How big is the difference in 3.5$ and 7$ 45mans? (example with ROI would be nice.)

              How beatable are the turbo sngs in ongame? They run so fast that i think they should be considered hypers.
              30man 3$ and 5$ turbos up to 25% roi, if u r good with push/fold and icm.
              12-14-2012 , 12:59 PM
              So ive started grinding the 0.5$ 45 and 90 man turbos at pokerstars, and will do this until my BR reaches 100~200$ I guess and then move up to 1$ 90turbo/180 hyper, and later on 2.5$ 180 turbo.

              Inputs on what to play\avoid when moving up is welcome, but my main question is , I imagine in the 0.5s especially, the players are going to be calling off a lot looser\I will be having less fold equity than i might come to expect at higher stakes. I will try to use whatever HUD\reads I have obviously, but does anyone with experience at playing at these ultramicro how much more loose i can expect other people to call shoves\how much tighter I Should be against a 'random' target?

              Looking at the average vpip/PFR i have gathered after 50 tournaments its 23.7/10.4, changing the blinds up to 100+, it changes to 21.1/11.1. Feel like currently I am shoving a bit too lightly. Random hand history example, if people are folding more tightly i guess this is an easy shove, but I guess I should be more proned to folding in places where I against tigher opponents could be shoving ATC profitably?

              PokerStars NLHE Tournament, ($0.45+$0.05), t200/t400/t50 blinds, 9 handed, 31%/21.5%/16.5%/12.5%/9%/6%/3.5% payouts
              Hand exported from the SitNGo Wizard. How to import this hand into the SitNGo Wizard.
              {Tournament|PokerStars|0.45|0.05|200|400|50|45-Man}
              UTG: t2871 6.4 BBs{Player|UTG|2871|Fold|50}
              UTG+1: t10025 22 BBs{Player|UTG+1|10025|Fold|50}
              UTG+2: t6199 14 BBs{Player|UTG+2|6199|Fold|50}
              UTG+3: t6267 14 BBs{Player|UTG+3|6267|Fold|50}
              UTG+4: t3025 6.7 BBs{Player|UTG+4|3025|Fold|50}
              Hero: t6485 14 BBs{Player|Hero|6485|Js|3c}
              BTN: t2215 4.9 BBs{Player|BTN|2215|Fold|50}
              SB: t4272 9.5 BBs{Player|SB|4272|Call|450|Average|36|26|17|6}
              BB: t3860 8.6 BBs{Player|BB|3860|Push|3860|Average|168|29|46|8|29|8 |8|8}

              Preflop: Hero is CO with J3
              5 folds, Hero?

              Opponent calling ranges when hero pushes:
              BTN (??), SB (??), BB (??)

              On a similar note, a bit conflicted with what to do early with big hands (AK/JJ/AQ specifically I Guess) where other people seem super ready to get it all in. I mean obviously it will happen that you run into AA/KK/QQ, but then again you also see people randomly getting it in with Q7o or whatever a lot more often than I imagine you do at the earlier stakes. I guess it might be +EV to get it in with something like AK preflop even if the blinds are small, but might be even more +EV to just stay in the tourney and not risk flips assuming you are a better player than most other people in the field?

              Last edited by earl; 12-14-2012 at 01:10 PM.
              01-06-2013 , 05:48 PM
              I'm looking to get into MTT's but I'm not really sure where to start. My roll is roughly $1800.

              Are 180's where it's at? Is there any reason to play 45's and 90's at all? I've read somewhere that you are supposed to use the average buy in for your bankroll considerations but I'm not even sure how many buy in's one should have for these games.
              01-06-2013 , 05:52 PM
              Also what stats are must haves on my HUD for tournaments?
              01-08-2013 , 07:00 AM
              Hi guys,

              I made it my aim to review more hands after a session and I have these three id like someone to help me with:

                Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (15/30 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
                Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15289961

                CO: 1,215 (40.5 bb)
                BTN: 1,215 (40.5 bb)
                SB: 2,380 (79.3 bb)
                BB: 1,390 (46.3 bb)
                UTG+1: 1,120 (37.3 bb)
                UTG+2: 1,230 (41 bb)
                Hero (MP1): 1,915 (63.8 bb)
                MP2: 3,150 (105 bb)
                MP3: 1,035 (34.5 bb)

                Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 5 5
                2 folds, Hero calls 30, MP2 calls 30, MP3 folds, CO calls 30, BTN folds, SB completes, BB checks

                Flop: (150) 7 8 2 (5 players)
                SB bets 30, BB folds, Hero raises to 90, MP2 calls 90, CO folds, SB calls 60

                Turn: (420) 3 (3 players)
                SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks

                River: (420) 7 (3 players)
                SB checks, Hero bets 120, MP2 raises to 1,560, 2 folds

                Spoiler:
                Results: 660 pot
                Final Board: 7 8 2 3 7
                SB mucked and lost (-120 net)
                Hero mucked 5 5 and lost (-240 net)
                MP2 mucked and won 660 (420 net)



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                Was this a bad time to limp? Should i have raised? I thought 5,5 was a weak hand to be raising with





                  Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (25/50 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
                  Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15289971

                  BTN: 1,110 (22.2 bb)
                  SB: 705 (14.1 bb)
                  BB: 4,075 (81.5 bb)
                  UTG+2: 1,390 (27.8 bb)
                  MP1: 1,230 (24.6 bb)
                  Hero (MP2): 1,620 (32.4 bb)
                  MP3: 1,295 (25.9 bb)
                  CO: 2,150 (43 bb)

                  Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q K
                  2 folds, Hero raises to 100, MP3 calls 100, 3 folds, BB calls 50

                  Flop: (325) A 6 J (3 players)
                  BB checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets 50, BB folds, Hero calls 50

                  Turn: (425) 4 (2 players)
                  Hero bets 50, MP3 raises to 100, Hero calls 50

                  River: (625) 7 (2 players)
                  Hero checks, MP3 bets 50, Hero calls 50

                  Spoiler:
                  Results: 725 pot
                  Final Board: A 6 J 4 7
                  Hero mucked Q K and lost (-300 net)
                  MP3 showed T A and won 725 (425 net)



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                  I don't like this hand, i usually fold K,Q in this position as I've had so much trouble with it, how would you of played this hand?






                    Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (75/150 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 7 Players
                    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #15289981

                    MP1: 2,465 (16.4 bb)
                    MP2: 1,797 (12 bb)
                    MP3: 3,825 (25.5 bb)
                    CO: 1,015 (6.8 bb)
                    BTN: 2,942 (19.6 bb)
                    Hero (SB): 1,895 (12.6 bb)
                    BB: 9,245 (61.6 bb)

                    Preflop: Hero is SB with K Q
                    2 folds, MP3 raises to 300, 2 folds, Hero raises to 1,895 and is all-in, BB folds, MP3 calls 1,595

                    Flop: (3,940) 2 9 T (2 players, 1 is all-in)
                    Turn: (3,940) A (2 players, 1 is all-in)
                    River: (3,940) 8 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

                    Spoiler:
                    Results: 3,940 pot
                    Final Board: 2 9 T A 8
                    MP3 showed J A and won 3,940 (2,045 net)
                    Hero showed K Q and lost (-1,895 net)



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                    Should I even have shoved this? I was concerned as I was down to 13BB

                          
                    m