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Maths behind calling ranges. Maths behind calling ranges.

04-09-2014 , 08:23 PM
I'm currently trying to use holdem resources calculator to piece together calling ranges vs different 3bet ranges stack sizes etc.

How do people learn these? It seems so complicated as there are so many different scenarios. Is there a way to simplify the learning process or any charts already made that take stack sizes + player type into consideration?
04-09-2014 , 10:22 PM
Is imposible to know all those numbers when you´re playing especially if you´re a mass tabler (12+ tables at the same time), u just have to run lots of scenarios and get familiar with the most common spots and adjust from there, and having this skill is also what seperates loosing/BEish players from average to elite ones.
04-10-2014 , 08:22 AM
I guess it should go like this...

1. Calculate odds you are getting for calling.

2. Estimate opponent range.

3. Take a look how many players are behind to act.

4. Calculate if your hand is good enough vs opponent range.

Folding is probably bad if you have 5%+ edge over opponent range. I'm calling when I think my edge is 2%+ and if I'm last to act. I'm not calling if my edge is 2% and there are, lets say, 5 more to act.

5. Before calling in close spots, think about what you will lose or gain if you win or loose the hand. Example: you may fold on BB vs UTG shove for 5bb when you have 12bb and you think it is very close spot. You may call in same spot w 22bb.

You can go through these steps when you are not playing and you can "see" and understand math behind.
04-10-2014 , 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weetam
I guess it should go like this...

1. Calculate odds you are getting for calling.

2. Estimate opponent range.

3. Take a look how many players are behind to act.

4. Calculate if your hand is good enough vs opponent range.

5. Before calling in close spots, think about what you will lose or gain if you win or loose the hand. Example: you may fold on BB vs UTG shove for 5bb when you have 12bb and you think it is very close spot. You may call in same spot w 22bb.
+1

Quote:
Folding is probably bad if you have 5%+ edge over opponent range. I'm calling when I think my edge is 2%+ and if I'm last to act. I'm not calling if my edge is 2% and there are, lets say, 5 more to act.
What u mean with 5% and 2% edge? cEV is base on chips not % and 2% $EV edge is huuge, even a 1% edge $EV wise is huge.
Anyway, i agree with the idea behind this on setting min edge for a stack size, i mean, i want a bigger average profit if im risking more chips/big blinds, like at 8bb stackim going to be very flexible /loose regarding the edges im willing to take but at 16bb+ im going to be vey picky/demanding
04-10-2014 , 09:29 AM
Example: you are thinking about calling on BB versus BTN shove. You need to win 42% of the time to be break even. You think your hand will be good 47% of the time versus estimated opponent range. This is what I meant with 5% edge. In terms of cEV of course.

When you add ICM, it gets funky.
04-10-2014 , 10:05 AM
Got cha, thanks for explaining it, never really thought about it like that, vast majority of the players uses cEV min edges just in terms on how many chips they earn on the decission, like if we are in the $1,000/$2,000 level of any given SNG and a certain call brings $1,000 chips in profit it means it has 0.5bb min edge or 1 SB, think is easier to see the net results in terms of chips, but to each its own, cheers.

      
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