Does Harrington's red-zone M apply for short tables where everyone has a shorter stack?
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 768
So Harrington dictates that with an M-ratio less than 6, your only move is to go all-in or fold. This is because with an open raise, you are often priced in to call a 3bet. But what about short tables, how does effective M play in?
Say the blinds are 10k/20k with 4k antes. There are 3 players left, and you have a stack of 450k for a small chip lead. That means your M is 10, but given 3 players, your effective M is ~3. Is your move still all-in or fold? Or can you get away with min-raising/3xing and playing post-flop if the table is passive?
BTN folds. SB (Hero) has JTs. Hero goes all-in, BB calls.
BTN (hero) has K6s. Hero goes all-in. 2 folds.
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,826
From observation of top players - youtube ept final table stream for uncut play - they don't much take into account the number of players when determining at what stack size they flip over to open shove mode.
But if all the stacks to act behind you are shorter then your extra chips don't play. If there is one guy on 11 BBs and the rest around 6-7 I am pushing though as you have to compromise.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 768
Do you think 12BB too deep to shove from the SB on the BB? If I raise with JTs to 3xBB, I think I have odds to call a shove considering we're flipping most the time. If I'm calling a shove, I might as well shove from the get-go.
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 7,826
I do it sb to bb up to 15 BBs and up to 10 BBs in other positions. In another thread I am asking for feedback on that so I am not sure myself if it is good.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,671
Good reminder about effective stack size being the important M.
I think if you're gonna call it off with JT, you might as well shove, since with that hand, you don't really want a call. (Well at least I wouldn't.) I'd prob only 3x raise in this situation if I was trying to induce. Which I know is such an obv pattern since I do it 80+% of the time, but since most people are multitabling/not taking notes, I feel safe with this.
I also think when it's 3 handed it plays differently than when it's still a full FT. When you're down to 3 people, unless at least 2 player have 15BB or more, it seems like it's just shoving every hand except the very occasional limp. IDK if that makes it right, but at least it's expected.
