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8$ 180 man Turbo 8$ 180 man Turbo

01-29-2015 , 02:55 PM
Fellow turbo-ites, I can't work out if this was horrific or not.

This was first hand and don't think I have seen Villain before - I don't use a HUD.

Comments on any part please and then what would you do?


    Poker Stars, $7.34 Buy-in (10/20 blinds) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    BTN: 1,500 (75 bb)
    SB: 1,500 (75 bb)
    BB: 1,500 (75 bb)
    UTG+1: 1,500 (75 bb)
    Hero (UTG+2): 1,500 (75 bb)
    MP1: 1,500 (75 bb)
    MP2: 1,500 (75 bb)
    MP3: 1,500 (75 bb)
    CO: 1,500 (75 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with Q J
    UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to 60, 3 folds, CO calls 60, 3 folds

    Flop: (150) A T 3 (2 players)
    Hero bets 80, CO raises to 160, Hero calls 80

    Turn: (470) 9 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO bets 240, Hero calls 240

    River: (950) T (2 players)
    Hero ?

    01-29-2015 , 03:40 PM
    you don't have to raise pre, folding is okay. as played flop is okay and i fold turn, check/f river
    01-29-2015 , 04:18 PM
    preflop: pretty hand but very loose open, just fold pre

    flop: as played, cbetting is ok-ish, it hits CO's calling range pre, if we do cbet size it bigger to 100

    as played cb/f, why cb/c with GS? we're OOP on drawy board and turn will be nasty often

    turn: as played, c/f, we don't have odds and might be drawing dead

    river: as played, c/f
    01-30-2015 , 06:52 AM
    I agree you can fold this sometimes/a lot of times, especially later in the tournament, but I think you have to mix up your opening a range a bit.
    When Villain raises on the flop I thought his range contained a lot of Ax, but probably excluded AK and maybe AQ. So I decide to call and plan to either call down if I hit my straight or make a play depending on the run out.
    Turn gives me up and down (which I agree may not turn out to be best) but also puts the flush out there. Villain most likely does not have Kd or Qd so I see a bluffing opportunity.
    I can't decide if the river card is really card or bad for my range - I would have played KQ with one diamond like this. At the time I thought it was a good card and so jammed.

    I am still not sure if it was that horrific - but I am trying to get away from too much fit-or-fold poker and this seemed like an opportunity.

    What is Villain's range by the river?
    01-30-2015 , 12:14 PM
    I won't comment on the open because it's subjective to each players style.

    On the flop though I don't see a reason to call out of position once we are raised with only a gutshot and back door flush draw. It's too early to be floating people out of position and this just seems like lighting money on fire to me. Just fold after you're raised.
    01-31-2015 , 11:42 AM
    Pre is fine, flop is questionable but still fine, turn is fold
    02-01-2015 , 09:25 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mReid
    It's too early to be floating people out of position and this just seems like lighting money on fire to me. Just fold after you're raised.
    I think thats the question here. I was on mild tilt after min cashing in a tourney just before this one. The 10d looked like the ideal card to stack off with. Basically with the aim to make him fold two pair or a weakish flush.
    More likely to be perceived as a bluff in the first hand of the tourney, you tend to see more bluffs from all the fish in at the start (maybe myself included )
    02-05-2015 , 05:33 AM
    I personally don't like playing QJs when its so early on especially from that position, but if you are going to play it from UTG+1 then i think 2X more appropriate than 3X because your definitely folding to a 3/4 bet raise, but yeah I wouldnt recommend playing it at all.

    Post flop the C bet is fine but when you get raised by Cut Off your probably folding High card Q with backdoor flush draw and gutshot straight draw, i think at $8 most people at that deep are calling a 3X with AX, KQ type of hands and if they hit two pair they probably arent going anywhere without 4 diamonds or a straight -1 card on board, I dont think many are calling QX or worse so im probably laying it down there most of the time.

    If not already laid down i really don't like the call on the turn when C/O bets near 1/3rd of starting chip stack at starting blinds I think hed have to be VERY loose to be betting that much so early on with less than Q high, plus he may of picked up a flush so if you do hit the open ended straight draw on river and he shoves you could well be leaving the tournament there and then.

    Last edited by Mercury; 02-05-2015 at 05:44 AM.
    02-05-2015 , 05:59 PM
    Thanks for response Mercury.
    3x is very standard at 10/20, 2.5x/3x at 15/30 and 2x at levels after that.
    Villain called my shove and flipped over AJ, with Jd, so that was a quick a tournament.
    02-06-2015 , 06:45 PM
    first thing i'd do if i was you is get a hud

    i'd open here in a 3r with 150bb stacks but fold in an $8 with 75bb, that being said its not that bad, sizing is fine.

    im c/f turn here readless
    02-07-2015 , 07:05 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WonTr1ckPony
    first thing i'd do if i was you is get a hud

    i'd open here in a 3r with 150bb stacks but fold in an $8 with 75bb, that being said its not that bad, sizing is fine.

    im c/f turn here readless
    I am getting the feeling that turn is a fold....I usually find it very hard to fold to a click raise, but seeing as I had jack all equity in this case there is a STRONG argument to fold.
    Taking it to the river though..... imagine someone pressed your call button on the turn.....is the river shove bluff horrendous? I still kind of like it even though it meant me busting out on the first hand.
    02-07-2015 , 07:18 AM
    Playing the hand is ok imo, there is nthg inherently wrong with playing a loose style, especially if ur skills call for it.

    Turn is a fold tho. Ur outs are unclear and may be already drawing dead

    Sent from my GT-I8190 using 2+2 Forums
    02-07-2015 , 10:13 AM
    Fine until turn - fold, especially with some of our few outs being dirty
    02-07-2015 , 08:14 PM
    fold pre with no antes
    02-09-2015 , 10:27 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by getmeoffcompletely
    Pre is fine, flop is questionable but still fine, turn is fold
    +1
    02-10-2015 , 07:59 AM
    Nothing wrong with taking a stab on the flop, but once he calls I'm done with the hand. As noted, even the SD is dicey once 3rd diamond hits on turn.
    02-11-2015 , 12:35 PM
    If you put aside the bad play up to the river....try and park it in a ormant part of your brain for now.......as played.....is the river shove generally bad too?
    When I called turn it was only to bluff, although hitting the straight would probably have caused me to slow down.
    Td looks like the ideal card - either I am completely dead in the water or Villain has to be scared of a boat or a flush. even Jd has to be worried I have K or Q.
    Maybe this will just never work at these stakes. Or it's just a ****e move
    02-12-2015 , 03:37 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kurt Beefstick
    If you put aside the bad play up to the river....try and park it in a ormant part of your brain for now.......as played.....is the river shove generally bad too?
    When I called turn it was only to bluff, although hitting the straight would probably have caused me to slow down.
    Td looks like the ideal card - either I am completely dead in the water or Villain has to be scared of a boat or a flush. even Jd has to be worried I have K or Q.
    Maybe this will just never work at these stakes. Or it's just a ****e move
    Well the question when you bomb the river is, "What are you representing?" There's almost 0% chance you have a boat, since a set on the flop never checks back turn on this board. And a made flush almost never checks turn either, board has lots of ways someone will call. So all you can rep are hands like AK/AQ with Kd or Qd, or KQ/KJ with a diamond.

    But then you have to ask, what does V have that he made an admittedly weak minraise on flop, followed by bet on turn? He almost certainly has either of the hands you hope to rep, boat or flush. Against a reg, I think your play is mucho spewy, and nothing you do on the river will get him off his hand, unless it's something he's highly unlkely to have like 87dd or AJ with Jd. (Again, if he had small made flush, he woulda bet bigger on turn. The AJ prob doesn't bet turn.)

    Given the fact that I think his bet sizing wasn't great (flop minraise, too small turn bet on wet board), he prob isn't a reg. But since he's betting flop and turn, he prob ain't folding either. So I think bombing river to get him off a 2pair Ax hand (I can't see him betting turn with just one pair), it just won't work often enough.

    So I think in general, sorry bro but yeah, ****e move.

    However,and I am not advocating this at all, if you want to set up a play like this with a river bluff, on this board I think you have to bet turn as well. By betting FTR, you're repping a much wider selection of hands than the passive line you took here. When he minraised flop, it kinda threw a wrench in that move, and I can't see how in this spot you can make a credible bluff move that wouldn't be 3bet flop and go AI on turn, and that's just horribad.
    02-13-2015 , 12:01 PM
    Nice analysis and some salient points, which I am not about to argue with. The range being repped is far too narrow and not very believable at that.
    Difficult to assimilate all of that information during hand with the timer binking at you.....obviously need more volume and commit this stuff to muscle memory!
    Thanks for the response sw.
    02-14-2015 , 03:35 PM
    I hear you about muscle memory. When I have time to go over a hand everything seems so obvious, which is why I think that somehow this game must be 'beatable', but at online game speed I am a mistake-bot who's prob lucky to be a marginal winner.

          
    m