PokerStars - $7.34+$0.66|200/400 Ante 50 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 11.85 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 10.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 24)
Hero (SB): 16.63 BB
BB: 30.36 BB (VPIP: 30.68, PFR: 26.19, 3Bet Preflop: 14.29, Hands: 89)
UTG: 0.92 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
UTG+1: 46.55 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP: 21.48 BB (VPIP: 27.27, PFR: 15.00, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 22)
MP+1: 17.47 BB (VPIP: 6.25, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 16)
MP+2: 8.66 BB (VPIP: 22.58, PFR: 10.34, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
CO: 13.49 BB

9 players post ante of 0.13 BB, Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 2.63 BB) Hero has A Q

fold, fold, MP raises to 2.63 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero calls 2.13 BB, fold

Flop: (7.38 BB, 2 players) 4 8 A
Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: (7.38 BB, 2 players) 9
Hero bets 3.69 BB, MP calls 3.69 BB

River: (14.75 BB, 2 players) Q
Hero bets 4 BB, MP calls 4 BB



so what you reckon I cant really 3 bet pre with out compressing his range or commiting my self. but as he has more then 2x perhaps i should just shove. Thing is if i shove im folding out all the hands worse then mine. and as a simple risk reward doesnt sit to well with me. By flatting i have to play post flop oop but i keep all his worse ax hands in that i dominate.

Also vb sizing on river ok?

shove pre
as played,if u wanna extract value from aces u can bet even stronger cuz he aint folding them on that action... like 8-9bbs

Sizing alright, can be up to 6ish BB. Definitely not getting value from .5-.6 pot.

call is bad here in my opinion. if we had more more then 25bbs then it could be okay, but here need to shove to gain max value as he can certainly call with worse. As played bet river bigger

do you think he is really calling a shove with worse from a tight player 3 bet shoving 17bb's? Whats in his r/c range thats worse then aq here ajs maybe aj? dont think he would call me with a10 and maybe aj folds to. He may fold out some low/mid pairs that have decent equity vs me but i can likely put pressure on these post flop anyway assuming they dont set up.

I would definatly shove if he had opened from the high jack onwards as his range is wider so therefore my shoving range is wider and he can call of lighter. Or he folds which is fine. I would also shove if i had a smaller stack say 14bb less.

As it turned out definetly lost value on the small vb on river but his actual hand was such a small part of his range my sizing hopes to get value from more likely holdings such as AK AJ A10 all the AXs maybe KQ esp KQ d
also tens and jacks which may fold to another over but hopefully will pay this sizing.

But you could be right even having said all that i think a lot of that range would pay a hp river bet, and if i played the hand again half pot would be my sizing. The small sizing i used practically eliminates bluffs from my range as i havent set up the thin bluff vs villain in previous hands.

Again consider my tight image and he may think there isnt a lot of bluffs in my range on river.

What about the shove for value on river. I have done this vs regs with reg on reg dynamics in stt if my hand is strong but not nutted say i have 2 pair and flush hits river a shove looks like i could be repping the flush ( I often do this if the fludh fits my line say I had a oesd and flush hits instead, but that is texture dependent) so i polarise my hand to flushes and repped flushes and they hero call with a strong one pair hand or pocket pair.

Obviously i only did this when them hitting flush was very unlikely given line.

You say this.

Then suggest this. The same fundamental problem remains with river shoves on these boards. Only better calls, and worse doesn't call enough to justify the shove.

Flatting still isn't a good option. We're out of position when we miss the flop were pretty much f*****when we could have taken a +cev shove which they could certainly call with worse, this is a $8 sng online. If we had more chips then yes could be okay but we need to ship here

yeah i completly agree with you not explained myself very well. let me ask this do you ever get leveling vs regs in mtsng that repping that you are repping ever makes sense. in stt you have 1000's of hands vs each other but i guess these relationships never develop in mtsng?

vs regs in stt repping a bluff to get hero calls from there likely strong one pair hands vs regs is profitable vs some regs.

who has ever hit a flop any way?

Yeah, you see the same masstablers, especially in micros. And it isn't leveling as far as you both are basically doing the same things without variation because +ROI and your awareness of their ranges/lines get to the point where your decisions (and theirs) become automatic, especially late in MTTSNGs.

This can be the case in 45's or 180's to a certain extent, but even looking up somebody and seeing they play 8, 12 or 16 tables, you can assign them a default playing style (which you accumulate off other regs/100k's of hands) and make slight alterations (notes/mentally) based on showdowns/unusual stuff you see from them.

Shame I enjoyed the levelling immensly.

This.

In addition, if he folds something like J9s and lets us pick up a pot of 5.3 BB that's better than playing post flop against such hands OOP, even with AQo.

This idea of not wanting to fold worse/get called by better is what it's all about on rivers, but a competing consideration preflop is that every hand has masses of equity against pretty much every other hand so it's ok if they fold out their equity in the pot even if that equity is less than 50%.

People talk as if there is an iron curtain between bluffs, where villain has more than 50% against us and protection bets, where he has less than 50% against us but that's an arbitrary line - generally you want him to fold out his equity (or put in more money when behind) with this consideration disappearing as his equity gets close to zero (like on rivers where the specific hands are always 100%-0% against each other barring chops).

So I think we can be relatively agnostic to what his calling range is - i.e. whether this is good because he calls with worse or whether this is good because he folds equity* of nearly half the pot. Unless his opening range is super narrow and we're behind too often this is fine anyway.

*Here I mean equity also adjusted for position.

Not loving the flat here OOP. Shoving is a viable option as it looks a bit weaker than a 3 bet from the SB. I would probably shove, but 3 betting can certainly be an option as well to get value.

Like you're worried. It's always going to be a mix. Let's just have fun with this.

hate flatting and folding so i guesss i jam crappy spot

2/4 marginal. In these, ~3/6 or 4/8 it can become a reasonably easy fold. But table redraws and elims naturally shrink effective to 6h/7h so it's a jam in these.

For me this is all day long shove, for shure +EV and I`m happy to get there thouse ~4bb even he fold pre.