I'm interested in hearing opinions on this hand and what ppls reshove ranges look like here taking icm into consideration. BTN seems like an aggro reg playing 26/24/12 in 160 hands.

but I'm more interested in flipping the situation a bit. Let's say heros on the button with 22 bigs.

after inputting this scenario in ICMizer nash is saying hero can shove OTB with about 47% of hands.

We obviously dont want to do that because we think we have an edge on the remaining field and dont want to take every breakeven spot that comes up



Whats the best way to split our ranges here?

we want to have a r/f , r/c , and open jam range

r/c range i think 99+, AQo/AJs+

this is where it gets kinda tricky for me.

open jam range i know for sure we wanna have
22-88 in there
suited aces / ATo-AJo
some suited broadways KTs+,QTs+, JTs ?

so far this is only like 13% of hands
nash says 47% of hands are +EV

do we just take the bottom of our +EV nash jam range and work it in as a r/f?

Ideally I'd like to fold out the very bottom of that 47% (maybe some of those low suited connectors or J3s for example) and then r/f hands like Krag/Aragg for blocker value

some of these hands im just snap folding in game. idk if thats a leak or whatnot

that button shove range depends heavily on the call ranges of the sb and bb. If you change the nash call ranges to: 8.4% (sb) and 11.8% (bb) then the button can only shove a whopping 8.7%.

About your shoving range as B. I would certainly not shove anything here. Unless the SB is a very aggro good reg. I would rather minr my whole range and have minr/c against both villains.

You have a very nice stack at the moment which is worth quite a lot. No need to shove A2s here and risk being called by the SB with a better ace or pair.

are you in BB cEV mode here, and not $EV/%EV?

nah icm$ev



tho it is true what leia said if they call a little lighter than nash suggests we can only get in 8.7%



seems like this spot is very villain dependent as to who is in the blinds and how icm aware they are , i was surprised it had dropped off by that much but understandable i suppose with a 3bb stack still in. bb doesnt need to call that wide imo the nash range is pretty nice taking into consideration theres a cpl stacks shorter than him still in.

the bb calling range is not that important. its the sb that counts. if he calls around 7% then b can shove already 27%. Even though the sb only calls 1.5% tighter (absolute value) we can shove a freaking lot more (three times as much: 9->27%)

But like you said very villain dependant. against villains who do not 3bet enough, you are better off min/r 100% here.

just look at all those nice green plusses :P

ah good, wasn't exactly sure as I normally use %EV myself

You absolutely can not minraise 100% as button, that's crazy. You can't use HRC or ICMizer to determine profitable opening ranges, because these programs assume that you cannot get flatted and that it's a 3bet or fold game. People flatting you, even out of position is bad for a wide opening range. High stakes regs found out years ago that someone flatting even decently wide in the big blind plus 3 betting a decent range will shrink your profitable opening ranges by a lot. With ICM at 20 bbs against even marginal players an open of more than 45% is probably going to be negative ev. With 2 world class players in the SB and BB, you could not open more than about 35-37% before your opens would start losing money, because very solid regs play 80% of BB hands vs a BN open.

The trick to being able to play a wider range from the BN is to limp a certain part of your range because people are unsure of how to play against a limp strategy from the BN at that stack size and make some pretty big errors, which allows us to squeeze in a few more hands that can be profitable. In this exact spot vs regs in the SB and BB, my range would look like this:


color key for said chart:


Order is "your action/your action to a 3bet NAI/Your action to a 3bet Jam.


There would actually be a few more limp traps since the BB is short in this scenario, this range was made assuming the SB and BB are relatively equal stacked to you.

Against very bad regs or randoms I would do very little limping and just open a wider
range, but even so that range is not going going to be more than 40-45% and probably even less in this scenario where I expect the BB to get in wide because he's short. If you consistently open 50% or more as BN here, you're leaking money like a sieve.


Edit: And the 3bet call ranges will be off, given how short the other stacks are, this was a general range created awhile ago under less heavy ICM circumstances.
I went ahead and ran the hand for kicks and with appropriate 3betting ranges we can get in a9o solidly and a7s solidly vs BB, along with KQs. Obviously against the SB our call off range is super tight, somewhere around 1010+ AQs+ AKo. Calling the SB with anything wider than that and you're playing with fire.

very insightful post man. much appreciated. Youve opened my eyes up i hadnt really even considered adding a limping range in there. Makes alot of sense to do so.

Is the difference between "open raise" and "min raise" that the first one is 3x?

Yeah "open raise" is just used for anything that isn't a minraise

What is it here though?

So you actually have 5 possible options: shove, open, min, limp and fold?

I would have trouble balancing all that.

I understand what your saying. But i grind these 180s fulltime and my experience is that 9/10 players will play 3bet/fold strategy. Occaisionally you will see players who also flat but give up post flop way too much. And real real real rare i find a good reg with a wide flatting range.

so against nits and a people who just want to ladder its fine to open super wide on the button i think.

At this stack size I only minraise. Anything under 20bbs if I'm raising it's a minraise except SB vs BB.

Sent from my SM-G925I using 2+2 Forums

Yeah, I just noticed min-raise and open are the same colours.

@SandmanNess What is that software you´re using?

For us to be able to come up with an optimal and/or best exploitative strategy we need to have information about the villains in the blinds, what are their tendencies with those effective stack when facing a BU open in that spot? Whats their re-steal range? flating tendencies? post flop tendencies? Do we have history vs any of them? Whats our image at the table at that time? Are they ICM aware? spewtards?

CoffeeCalcs, it's main purpose is a program for HU hypers but the preflop strategy planner for making ranges is the best one I've ever seen.