Very interested on your thoughts about preflop best option.Is fold better than calling on this kind of spots? Villian is reg and most at the table are regs too.

My default here has been always to fold these spots preflop to avoid getting into icm disasters like this hand.And after thinking it now I still consider fold>call (although call may have it´s merits) ,but I don´t feel 100% convinced so would appreciatte your input on it.

I like to defend QJo on the bb on MTTs (chipEv spots),but I think that on this particular icm 180s spots (more still if we are 23bbs deep,2nd stack etc) often leads to a disaster like on the hand below.What´s your calling range here?

fold on the turn bet by MP2


as played....
flop/pre-flop calls pretty "ok" IMO - lose the 6bb on the turn .... You still have 16.4 Bb after your turn fold....

i prefer a chk/call on flop rather than a bet/raise/call situation that eventually happened.

why are you leading the flop?

very good spot pf to apply icm pressure since he should be calling our jam with only JJ+ AKs...

if we decide to see flop, we should be the ones who apply pressure and put last bet in... as played fold turn...

i see his range rather strong tbh and would probably fold pre.
he is raising into 3 people he has to call (one he doesnt care about at all).
if he is a reg i assume he is shoving the part of the range we dominate/have good equity against directly in order to avoid light reshoves from you.
so he should be shoving T9s, J9s, JQo, 22-88 directly imo.
another point against the defend is that if my assumptions are correct we are not dominating anything from his opening range -> we have problem broking TPGK like in that case. and defending and not broking with TPGK, 14bb eff. with deadmoney is not a thing i like.
donking flop is pointless for sure, why should you be donking with your nutrange? so donking with your weak SD value hand makes no sense.

so basically if you have seen him r/f with this stacksize (and ofc the shorties) there are points for pushing, but readless i am more often folding.

fold > push > flat imo

check raise flop, get it in!
unlucky that he had aces
but play for win ya~

Like this approach, still difficult to me to put villain on a defined open range from utg with that stack at those stakes as i play way lower than that. Flop would be a c/c to me against a unknown reg.

Yep,flop donk is clearly bad.I'm more intetested on preflop options,and how good/bad do you think are each,and what wold be a good calling range.
Agree with bublenedrum and fold is the best option imho,but would like more opinions on it.
Btw villian (a reg) wasn't stealing a lot neither being very active or anything,and given stacks sizes his range is never very wide.

On a 180man,on this particular spot with these stack sizes,I think push is bad though.
Imo fold>call>push

His range had to be too wide for this push not to be a huge icm mistake (sorry for multiple post,on the phone now)

Petarlazovic,most regs are not open-folding all but Ak,JJ.that's not a realistic assumption

it looks like my mistake... i've rushed a little with his ability and range estimation...
i agree with bubble that he is not opening to say middle of his range 66-99, KQ AJ 9Ts etc, so when he mr he should be polarized to value/inducing TT+, AK and some bluffs... given the stack sizes and his image he probably don't have many bluffs, if at all... tho we don't need too many bluffs for +ev shove, but for that we need a lot more information on his range... so i agree that folding is best option with this information...

little off: if we make mistake by shoving QJ here that is smaller than his potentially a lot bigger mistake open/calling say with AQo, is that a still good move by us?

not quite sure what you mean.
do you want to know if our shove is -EV, but his r/c with AQ WOULD be more -EV which would make our move profitable/favorable?

if yes the clear answer is no. everybody at the table not involved in the hand would make a profit (-> zero sum game: every part of the prizepool (in %) we loose is distributed between the other players)

but r/c AQo would not be bad at all

yep, that is what i ment...

r/c AQo is pretty big ICM mistake in this scenario...

Any more opinions on wich PREFLOP option is optimal: fold vs call and why?

Do some of you think that folding QJo here is too nitty? Call ranges?

I'd fold the first time and feel good about it. maybe defend QJs, he is gonna jam most the pair we flipping with .
and as play..donking is really bad and you have to fold that turn, if you really want to c/c, then jam the turn yourself

Nice to see 180s not dead yet thx guys

Flat pre
Check shove flop

big lol @ anyone who said fold pre

In this specific spot (as opposed to defending in general), with the chance to knock someone out, I think a call is fine. Once shortie is all in and the flop comes, for most situations a reg is either gonna check it down, or announce they have a big hand by betting the flop. This situation is a bit more complicated, in that side pot is larger than main pot, but still, I'd think most regs would check back unless they have KQ+. (I could be very wrong about that, but I'd think the +ICM of knocking out a player is far more valuable than 3BB in side pot, so a hand like 77 or JT will be in checkdown mode. If he bets the flop, I might call 1 street, but would grudgingly give it up after that.)