Hey guys. What do you think about my line here? My thinking is I have a nut flush draw, one of them has Q probably, BB is more likely to have something other than Q but not strong since he's opening ****load. So I think I shove, i block KQ, AQ so my overcard outs might still be alive and even if one of them has made flush then a) I have an Ace of hearts so I have some fold equity (shoving into two people makes it look even stronger, beside the fact that they know they dont have an Ace of hearts) and b) even if one of them calls having a flush I still have outs. On the other hand If I call and BB shoves I am forced to fold this really strong hand(also UTG+1 might be semibluffing and would force me to fold anyway on turn by leading if I miss flush outs) so I tried to take it down then and there. Also I'm not sure if it's not completely bonkers ICMwise (it might).

[converted_hand][hand_history]Poker Stars, $0.23 Buy-in (200/400 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37152815

BTN: 2,296 (5.7 bb) - VPIP: 12, PFR: 8, 3B: 6, AF: 4,0, Hands: 164
SB: 8,491 (21.2 bb) - VPIP: 17, PFR: 13, 3B: 7, AF: 0,9, Hands: 289
BB: 11,212 (28 bb) - VPIP: 57, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 2,1, Hands: 90
UTG+1: 12,346 (30.9 bb) - VPIP: 20, PFR: 11, 3B: 0, AF: 1,8, Hands: 84
UTG+2: 2,632 (6.6 bb) - VPIP: 8, PFR: 6, 3B: 0, AF: 0,5, Hands: 121
Hero (MP1): 8,424 (21.1 bb)
MP2: 5,777 (14.4 bb) - VPIP: 13, PFR: 8, 3B: 2, AF: 7,0, Hands: 122
MP3: 3,618 (9 bb) - VPIP: 9, PFR: 6, 3B: 5, AF: 1,9, Hands: 477
CO: 12,704 (31.8 bb) - VPIP: 22, PFR: 11, 3B: 8, AF: 1,3, Hands: 166

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A K
UTG+1 raises to 800, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls 800, 4 folds, SB calls 600, BB calls 400

Flop: (3,425) 4 8 Q (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets 800, UTG+1 raises to 1,800, Hero raises to 7,599 and is all-in

jam it pre

i find your play very good... check raise all in with 2 overcards and you go for flush draw..very good play in m opinion

Thanks man.

I like the "jam it pre" line too, even if the open does come from early position. He does have PFR of 11 but that's not so accurate over 84 hands - we do have enough data to say the gap of 9 between VPIP/PFR is too high though, so he is oriented towards calling. I think we can get called by AQ, AJ etc if we jam.

They're never laying down a flopped flush in a 25 cent game and TBH I wouldn't either because your line doesn't look like the unbreakable nuts. I think we aren't even folding out AQ, KQ.

I think the 3-bet jam on the flop is fine but I would rather flat and call BB's probable 3-bet shove though because you ideally want to get the money in 3-way with one of the others drawing dead. If instead BB flats or folds then if you hit on the turn you can get the rest of the money in good over the next two streets. The problem is that if you miss turn then you end up folding if MP jams, but in that situation you probably only have 7-8 outs anyway (against a set or flush). I wouldn't necessarily play that way against stronger opposition because I wouldn't expect BB to 3-bet shove as much, and also I would expect our 3-bet shove to have more fold equity against top pair.

EDIT: I've just seen this is final table two off the money. Yes, definitely jam pre. The post-flop situation sucks but we should probably flat and fold if BB shoves, maybe just open fold given that we have "missed". A lot of the reason to jam pre is it's too difficult to play postflop on the bubble when they cover us and therefore have more fold equity than we do on this type of flop. Later on at the final table you might have more idea how these guys are playing this situation (stats don't help much) and if your 3-bet might get through, but without reads if these guys "like their hands" you don't have ICM odds to flip with them.

Would def jam pre cause :

-AK is a drawing hand, you want to see the 5 cards with this hand.. not only the flop

-Better chance to win the pot in HU than 4 ways pot

-hard to play the hand if you don't hit and 20 bb the perfect reshove stack

-If you push they all fold you increase your stack of 20% (not bad)

But as played in flop I think we to think about utg1 hand :
utg+1 raise to 1800 making the pot 6000.When you shove the pot is 13599 and he has to call 5799 getting 2.3/1 on a call so he need 43% equity

with QJ he has 48% KQ 53% any set 71%

with JhJx 50%

you crush JT and AK with kigh heart

So vs the range that raise Utg and raise on the flop you have no fold equity I think.Even if on those 0.25 everything can happen....

Thank you guys. Really good points has been made.