2.50 180man Shove? - MTTSNG -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

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2.50 180man Shove?

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01-24-2014 , 08:51 PM

torontowiz

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 28

Just wondering if shoving Ax here given stack size and dynamic is good. Thanks in advanced.

Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (400/800 blinds, 75 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #22640571

BTN: 4,025 (5 bb)
SB: 9,950 (12.4 bb)
BB: 11,104 (13.9 bb)
UTG+1: 2,942 (3.7 bb)
Hero (UTG+2): 5,175 (6.5 bb)
MP1: 13,817 (17.3 bb)
MP2: 6,775 (8.5 bb)
MP3: 14,988 (18.7 bb)
CO: 5,195 (6.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with A

UTG+1 folds, Hero raises to 5,100 and is all-in, 6 folds, BB calls 4,300

Flop: (11,275) 7

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: (11,275) K

(2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: (11,275) 3

(2 players, 1 is all-in)

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

01-24-2014 , 08:57 PM

beauvanlaanen

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 12,487

This is really close. In a live event with this stack size I thinks it's an automatic shove but online and with a few shorter stakes than your I think you can fold here.

01-24-2014 , 09:22 PM

fidstar-poker

I'm gonna need a hacksaw

Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 32,993

yep, jam away

01-25-2014 , 02:25 AM

taipan168

old hand

Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 1,740

It's fine, once you take the antes into account you have the equivalent of 4x BB without antes, if the blinds run through you again you'll be in even worse shape, and you have an ace.

01-26-2014 , 06:32 AM

Dillinger

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2011 Posts: 63

fold A2s, A7/8o...6bb you don't need risk with this **** cards. When you get call..A4o is dead very often

01-26-2014 , 06:36 AM

dguia

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 789

Shove

01-26-2014 , 06:41 AM

suprguard

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 603

Yep, standard fold.

01-26-2014 , 06:50 AM

dguia

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 789

What are we waiting for? shorter stacks are just more involved after this round so i don't know what most want to shove after this hand because then we def get called more often than now...

01-26-2014 , 10:00 AM

ayenjunior

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 17

easy shove, u only have w antes 5bb

01-27-2014 , 02:50 AM

#10

emitnulB

veteran

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,444

looks like a slightly -ev spot to me.

01-27-2014 , 04:26 AM

#11

suprguard

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 603

Nash range.

22.8%, 22+ A2s+ A8o+ K8s+ KTo+ Q9s+ QJo J9s+ T8s+ 98s 87s

Common leak of people shoving too wide in spots like this. Mostly think 6bb with antes shove Ax every position, but that's wrong.

Do the math, check your hm and see how +EV that play is longterm.

01-27-2014 , 05:28 AM

#12

dguia

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 789

Is not like we push every Ax with 6bb from every position, but if we take a look at the other stacks at the table and assume we are gii anyway in the next 2 rounds so this hand is strong enough to shove. Not every situation is the same and that is something nash range or wathever ev calcuator doesn't knows

01-27-2014 , 06:27 AM

#13

suprguard

grinder

Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 603

Quote:

Originally Posted by dguia

You are wrong. Nash obviously take stacksizes of every player into account. If everybody has 4bb on the table your nash shove range will change too.

In this situation you have to shove the range I posted above.

01-27-2014 , 07:39 AM

#14

dguia

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 789

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprguard

I didn't say nash didn't take inyo account stacksizes, i will be probably wrong as you suggest but nash is so 2008 and it doesn't come even close to a accurate answer as it miss always information on further rounds. If u think that the range you posted above will hit us on the next few rounds, gl i guess...

01-27-2014 , 08:56 AM

#15

torontowiz

newbie

Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 28

Thanks for the feedback everyone! Tried punching it into Nash but didn't work for me, so thanks.

01-27-2014 , 12:18 PM

#16

Polanzzo

stranger

Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 3

Hard decision
I think that one is close, but with the suprguards range we have +EV for sure.

About that do you get this range on SnG wizzard??

Ty

01-27-2014 , 02:05 PM

#17

emitnulB

veteran

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,444

Quote:

Originally Posted by dguia

Nash is more like 2020 strategy than 2008 strategy. The reason it's sub optimal is because your opponents are bad at poker and don't know how to play correctly. You don't know what Nash is, you should learn about it.

01-27-2014 , 05:30 PM

#18

dguia

adept

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 789

Quote:

Originally Posted by emitnulB

Ok i def take every advice serious from here, so i will take that it into account. Still happy to shove the hand as fair my knowledge is

01-29-2014 , 12:40 PM

#19

Longy2

journeyman

Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 204

Nash assumes everyone play perfectly, when this starts happening at $2.5/180s we might as well ditch all strategy forums on here. Use it as a guide sure especially blind on blind spots vs regs but don't live by it.

Also it doesn't take into account our stack getting decimated by the blinds in 2 hands time.

Regarding the hand I would shove but it would be near the bottom of my range.

01-30-2014 , 10:20 AM

#20

MasterJ009

old hand

Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,386

Fold, A8o is my bottom aswell.

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