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2.5/180man_way too lose shoves? 2.5/180man_way too lose shoves?

01-20-2014 , 04:35 PM
Sup Guys

First time i write in here. I finally signed up after reading some stuff here and there. So im gonna post 2 hands and see how it goes and what u u guys think. Hopefully this 2 hands doesnt make me look like a complete *****.

2.5/180man sng on stars:
Hand 1




    Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (150/300 blinds, 25 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 8 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #22484361

    Hero (SB): 5,050 (16.8 bb)
    BB: 3,965 (13.2 bb)
    UTG+2: 5,450 (18.2 bb)
    MP1: 3,154 (10.5 bb)
    MP2: 9,287 (31 bb)
    MP3: 2,970 (9.9 bb)
    CO: 4,514 (15 bb)
    BTN: 7,499 (25 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is SB with 5 K
    6 folds, Hero raises to 5,025 and is all-in, BB calls 3,640 and is all-in

    Flop: (8,080) 9 J K (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    Turn: (8,080) 6 (2 players, 2 are all-in)
    River: (8,080) A (2 players, 2 are all-in)

    Spoiler:
    Results: 8,080 pot
    Final Board: 9 J K 6 A
    Hero showed 5 K and lost (-3,965 net)
    BB showed Q A and won 8,080 (4,115 net)



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    So, reason for the shove is basicly pressure and stealing in my mind... and K high BvB of course Anyway, is this just way out of line or ok in this spot? (19 hands on villain playing 26/13)

    Hand 2:




      Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (1,000/2,000 blinds, 200 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 6 Players
      Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #22484381

      CO: 13,980 (7 bb)
      BTN: 10,298 (5.1 bb)
      Hero (SB): 23,838 (11.9 bb)
      BB: 43,746 (21.9 bb)
      UTG: 24,884 (12.4 bb)
      MP: 39,123 (19.6 bb)

      Preflop: Hero is SB with Q 3
      4 folds, Hero raises to 23,638 and is all-in, BB calls 21,638

      Flop: (48,476) 6 9 J (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      Turn: (48,476) 4 (2 players, 1 is all-in)
      River: (48,476) 2 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

      Spoiler:
      Results: 48,476 pot
      Final Board: 6 9 J 4 2
      Hero showed Q 3 and lost (-23,838 net)
      BB showed A 6 and won 48,476 (24,638 net)



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      So where 6handed BvB and a reg in the BB (189hands at 21/17/7.4 3bet)
      Same question as above.

      Well, thanx allready and gl
      01-20-2014 , 06:03 PM
      Hi and welcome!

      Hand 1: Shove is fine, in fact it doesn't matter whether opp calls loose or tight, this is always +EV.

      Hand 2: In game I probably fold this because we're shoving against the big stack, regulars can sometimes call surprisingly light here and it seems that we're close to the final table with a reasonable stack. However, I ran it in SNG Wiz and it's +EV if opp calls with 38% of hands or tighter, which means it's probably a shove.
      01-20-2014 , 06:22 PM
      Thats a fast reply.... Thanx!

      Afterwards i think the big stack is probably a good enough reason to fold.
      I dont use sngwiz so i start doubting some pushs. Happy that im not completely off.
      Hand 2 if we push, this would be pretty much the bottom to do it with?

      Against big stack something like? 22+ Ax Axs K3+ Kxs Q6+ Q3s+

      Well i guess i should look for sngwiz
      01-20-2014 , 06:36 PM
      Yeah, get SNG Wiz or one of the other similar tools, they're really valuable for analysing your game.

      On Hand 2, in game I probably shove 22+, A2+, K5s+, K7o+, Q7s+, Q9o+, JT and T9s or something similar. Maybe it's my personal bias, but I tend not to like K and Q-small type hands as they're very easily dominated by opp's calling range if they do call.
      01-20-2014 , 06:49 PM
      But when they do call with k type hands or "dominating range", arent they higher anyway? lets say k8o+
      So it wouldnt be that much of a difference if we push k3o or k7o?
      01-20-2014 , 07:40 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Babangpena
      But when they do call with k type hands or "dominating range", arent they higher anyway? lets say k8o+
      So it wouldnt be that much of a difference if we push k3o or k7o?
      Yeah, as I said, it's my own personal bias which is probably a leak. We can probably profitably shove all the Kx-type hands provided that opp doesn't call too light.
      01-20-2014 , 09:40 PM
      Hand 1: you might be just deep enough to min raise. Shoving is fine tho imo.
      01-20-2014 , 09:41 PM
      Hand 2: I think this is too loose. It's ok to fold when folded to in the SB. I don't know why people feel the need to shove ATC...
      01-21-2014 , 05:28 AM
      @taipan, was jus thinking out loud.. I prob have looads of leaks.. Thx for sharing the range, I like it.

      Thanx for feedback. Hm intresting with the minraise, so this would be a r/f right?

      Big stack in bb and we have decent stack... Think I have to tighten up a bit... Just always have a feeling of "giving up" when I fold that stuff...

      Sent from my HTC One X using 2+2 Forums
      01-21-2014 , 06:22 AM
      2nd hand is horrific shove.
      01-21-2014 , 12:17 PM
      Reasoning for being horrific? (stacksize for sure, other reasoning? Just spewy?)
      What u think about taipans shovingrange there?

      Sent from my HTC One X using 2+2 Forums
      01-21-2014 , 01:01 PM
      First one seems fine, minraising could be an option but then is villain dependent. 2bd hand im folding
      01-22-2014 , 06:18 AM
      Thanx guys!

      Sent from my HTC One X using 2+2 Forums
      01-22-2014 , 12:49 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by win4me
      2nd hand is horrific shove.
      borderline, yes.
      01-23-2014 , 06:55 PM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Babangpena
      Hopefully this 2 hands doesnt make me look like a complete *****.
      We're all here to learn
      01-24-2014 , 01:24 PM
      Hand 1 - Shove. Clearly can't fold here, and while you can never put too much faith in a 19-hand sample size, he seems like he might incorrectly flat wide here, which can be a mild disaster when we're this short OOP w a weak King (and have to cbet virtually any flop for ~1/4 of remaining stack) Save yourself that trouble and make a pretty std jam.

      Hand 2 - Only way I'm jamming here is if I have a note/repeated evidence of BB being a nitty pushover w a stack (which is kind of like finding a unicorn in 180s) or B vs B. This is a spot where you'll seldom be given credit regardless of image, and you've got a comfortable enough stack (180 wise at least) to find a better spot.
      01-26-2014 , 09:26 AM
      Hand 1: I just dont like to put 2bb from my 12bb stack and then have to cbet anyway. folding after that with this stack....sucks

      Hand 2: thank u very much for the response, helps to know it is spew most of the time
      01-27-2014 , 02:56 AM
      Quote:
      Originally Posted by win4me
      2nd hand is horrific shove.
      I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 65% is standard for this spot...

      Last edited by emitnulB; 01-27-2014 at 03:02 AM.

            
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