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2.5 180m calling off Ax in blinds

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05-07-2017 , 02:28 PM

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

27m bubble just broke and V is new to the table. do you call here? what about in BB?

Poker Stars, $2.28 Buy-in (400/800 blinds, 75 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite. View Hand #37721409

UTG+1: 11,621 (14.5 bb)
UTG+2: 10,730 (13.4 bb)
MP1: 13,542 (16.9 bb)
MP2: 14,096 (17.6 bb)
MP3: 6,951 (8.7 bb)
CO: 7,250 (9.1 bb)
BTN: 2,129 (2.7 bb)
Hero (SB): 11,067 (13.8 bb)
BB: 7,275 (9.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5

5 folds, CO raises to 7,175 and is all-in, 3 folds

Spoiler:

Get the Flash Player to use the Hold'em Manager Replayer.

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05-07-2017 , 09:16 PM

DanielRS95

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 7

Hi! I would not have called against many broadways its almost a flip, I would play A7s+, KJs+ KQo something like that, sorry for my english it's not my native language

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05-07-2017 , 09:28 PM

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanielRS95

Hi! I would not have called against many broadways its almost a flip, I would play A7s+, KJs+ KQo something like that, sorry for my english it's not my native language

you're doing fine. Thanks for the input.

14% would be:
66+, A7s, K9s, QTs, JTs, ATo, KJo

which looks reasonable

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05-08-2017 , 01:01 AM

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

I take that back, I did an ICMIZER (after all that's what it's for) and got:
44+ A7s+ A9o+ KQs

gj Daniel you we're just about bang on

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05-08-2017 , 06:06 AM

Leia Amidala

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 451

that range seems too tight to me.

I used hrc in chip mode and got:

22+,Ax, BW,K8s

there is a little icm going on, so i would personally shove a little tighter:

33+,A6+,A2s,KT+QT, K9s

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05-08-2017 , 07:30 AM

DanielRS95

stranger

Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 7

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain-Hindsight

I take that back, I did an ICMIZER (after all that's what it's for) and got:
44+ A7s+ A9o+ KQs

gj Daniel you we're just about bang on

Ey, thank you. I don't know if you read me in the other forum but I would like to study with you, what you think about that?

Enviado desde mi SM-J700M mediante Tapatalk

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05-08-2017 , 04:57 PM

Leia Amidala

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 451

@captain

Did you use icm (last 4 tables) using icmizer or just chip ev?

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05-08-2017 , 07:42 PM

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leia Amidala

@captain

Did you use icm (last 4 tables) using icmizer or just chip ev?

I did an ICM $EV
180 9-max, 27 players left random, gave V a 25% shove and BB an 11% overcall

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05-09-2017 , 05:24 AM

Leia Amidala

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 451

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain-Hindsight

I did an ICM $EV
180 9-max, 27 players left random, gave V a 25% shove and BB an 11% overcall

makes sense. but do you really think we should call that much tighter then chip ev? I mean, we are sooo far off the big payouts. I can totally agree that we should call a little tighter. But by this much?

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05-09-2017 , 02:26 PM

#10

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leia Amidala

you're using Nash ranges in hrc right? I think the 9bb shoving range is closer to 33% which would explain the difference. I wouldn't assume V is shoving this wide having not played with them much.

I gotta just buy ICMIZER, I keep running out of trials. Tomorrow I'll run it with Nash ranges and we can compare the difference

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05-09-2017 , 02:38 PM

#11

Leia Amidala

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 451

yeah hrc with nash range (34% out of my head).

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05-10-2017 , 01:15 AM

#12

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

$ICM EV is still significantly tighter than Chip EV despite how far we are from the big payouts

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05-10-2017 , 05:06 AM

#13

Leia Amidala

grinder

Join Date: Nov 2015 Posts: 451

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain-Hindsight

$ICM EV is still significantly tighter than Chip EV despite how far we are from the big payouts

yeah i know icm calculators say that it is. but chip utility is a thing icm calcs have difficulty in taking into effect. i dont know, maybe im wrong, but calling that tight 26left is not optimal i think.

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05-10-2017 , 06:02 PM

#14

Captain-Hindsight

adept

Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 1,114

I don't pretend to be a master of ICM but I like to think the guys who made the calculator are. In general I still shove almost as loose but tighten my calling range

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05-15-2017 , 08:23 PM

#15

oldskool87

adept

Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 843

forget icm when the bubble just broke. id be calling A7o,A5s,KJo,K10s,44+. im calling tighter then nash not because of icm but because most villains wont be jamming that wide so cut off the worst hands.

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05-16-2017 , 10:12 AM

#16

ringo22

newbie

Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldskool87

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05-21-2017 , 05:27 AM

#17

Rodream8

centurion

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 157

i think depends a lot of villain tendencies and the estimate the range to call/fold, not using some stereotip ranges!

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06-05-2017 , 04:55 PM

#18

illusion420

enthusiast

Join Date: May 2017 Posts: 64

With bubble done there is what less then 30 left ? ICM doesn't apply when there is that many left.

You just want to take good spots to double up.

A5o is really borderline.. I would call a 10BB raise with A8+o so i would say u need A7+o or 55+ to call.. I wouldn't call with KQs, KJs u can just lose to A2o (KQs vs A2o ur less then 46% to win not good when ur calling an all-in with almost all ur stack)

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06-15-2017 , 07:31 AM

#19

LektorAJ

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 7,826

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leia Amidala

that range seems too tight to me.

I used hrc in chip mode and got:

22+,Ax, BW,K8s

there is a little icm going on, so i would personally shove a little tighter:

33+,A6+,A2s,KT+QT, K9s

Would you really reshove QTo in preference to K8s here? I don't see why it's better except against a few specific hands.

My own calling range here would be no wider than 44+, A7s+, KJs+, A8o+, KQo - but then I'm a nit.

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06-15-2017 , 07:51 PM

#20

balls'n'all

journeyman

Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by illusion420

KQs is a snap call and its not even close , Even if we knew he had A2 exactly we should still be calling.

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