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180m final table 5 left

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09-03-2013 , 08:42 PM

Miducharme

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 244

All of them are regs but I'm not sure how wide they are calling. At first I gave them ridic-tight range and it said any two, made their calling ranges wider and still any two so how off are my ranges?

Here I'd shove something like 22+, A5s+, A8o+, KTs+, KJo+, QT+, 98s+, way too tight?

Poker Stars, $7.34 Buy-in (2,500/5,000 blinds, 500 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (CO): 58,089 (11.6 bb)
BTN: 35,014 (7 bb)
SB: 44,164 (8.8 bb)
BB: 74,755 (15 bb)
MP: 57,978 (11.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

4 folds

Spoiler:

09-03-2013 , 08:50 PM

Adyo

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 462

your ranges are reasonable but you're looking at chip ev, and need to look at icm

09-03-2013 , 09:12 PM

Miducharme

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 244

But many people told me that cEV matters more in here because it's so top heavy, and from what I understood, you should tighten up the range just a bit so that it considers $EV too.

Meaning that, cEV should weigh much more than $EV.

09-03-2013 , 10:40 PM

Adyo

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 462

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miducharme

I believe you that people told you that.

When you say 'top heavy' you are using words that represent the payout structure.

You can enter that exact payout structure into the calculator.

If we are ignoring icm, it has to make one wonder what an icm calculator is for doesn't it?

I think at the very least you should look at both cev and icm.

09-03-2013 , 10:51 PM

kwanho1

adept

Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 716

Since you're first to act, you can shove a lot lighter; however, how light depends on what you think the villains' calling ranges are. I would shove pretty wide. Your ranges look good, and no it's not too tight.

09-03-2013 , 10:56 PM

Miducharme

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 244

Actually I just realised/remembered that $EV becomes more important when there's only 5 players left unlike when you just enter the final table...

09-04-2013 , 02:30 PM

Adyo

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 462

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miducharme

Actually I just realised/remembered that $EV becomes more important when there's only 5 players left unlike when you just enter the final table...

Actually this is only true depending on the payout structure. To verify it you can always use and icm calculator. But first you have to learn what it is for and how to use it.

09-04-2013 , 02:52 PM

ElloraBoy

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 81

I was under the impression that ICM was completely dependant on knowing the payout structure. Therefore if the calculator does not know the specific payout structure of this tournament then whatever calculation it is doing is useless.
When close to the money or in the money, $EV is much more important. cEV maybe more appropriate earlier on in the tournament.
Am I right?

09-04-2013 , 02:56 PM

ElloraBoy

enthusiast

Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miducharme

Actually I just realised/remembered that $EV becomes more important when there's only 5 players left unlike when you just enter the final table...)

In a 180 you are already in the money when you reach the final table and the payout increase with each bust out. So $EV is more important here. Whoever said it becomes more important when there's only 5 players left was probably taking about a 9 player sit and go that pays only 3 players.

I am not an expert but am I right?

09-04-2013 , 03:07 PM

#10

Adyo

self-banned

Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 462

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElloraBoy

The icm calcs allow you to enter the exact payouts, the rest of your quotes is unnecessary guessing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElloraBoy

09-04-2013 , 04:26 PM

#11

Miducharme

journeyman

Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 244

So if I want to make the most amount of money, should I be using ICM from start of the final table to finish? If not, then why and under what circumstances do I differ from it?

09-04-2013 , 05:23 PM

#12

Sokz

old hand

Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 1,331

Yes from start of FT. But often those 9-5 spots are relatively close to chipev (except with extreem stacksetups) and ICM (as for the nashrange) is often a tad too tight so for the sake of simplicity theyll tell you to go cEV all the way.

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