rebuy, rebuy

In terms of what each chip is worth in your tournament EV, we shouldn't rebuy. What outweighs this is the standard of play in these. When someone open-ships 150BB and you have AA, you want to go from 3K to 6K, not 1.5K to 3K. Playing deep with fish is worth a lot.

I understand there is value, I just don't see how that value is enough to justify adding $3+ to your abi. You have to win so much more money to justify this.

I've been wondering about this, thanks for the info. I always rebuy btw.

What are people's thoughts on whether it would be possible to play the $3 180 man rebuys on stars by just buying in once, no rebuys no add ons and still be profitable? Might be a stupid question, just wondering

You should ask stragerpoker, he does that **** kindof and has a decent profit in them. I think he add-ons though.

your roi would be smaller, as you will bust more tourneys, but this is it. If your game is good enough, 3r will be profitable.

if its a bankroll concern then you may aswell just play the 2.5's until you are rolled to play the 3.5s and 8's. I think i have seen a few regs who dont rebuy but everyone add-on thats for sure... not sure what else to say but i would recommend if your going to play these tournies that you rebuy and add-on, until then plays the 2.5's

Just seemed the difference in prize when you do hit top 3 would make up for having to get a bit luckier. I tend to be ok at cashing the 2.5s but struggle to make top 3. Do people think the play is softer in the rebuys?

I am always rebuying to the max. Thing is, there are often spots with fish when you can tripple up without much hassle. Sometimes I work my stack up to 20k before add-on (sometimes that involves busting first two bullets and reloading) which gives you a huge edge on people who start with 5k-6k stacks after add-on, basically it's a cruise to the money zone.

I really have no idea what stragerpoker is up to.

I've never seen any stats that say double buyin at the start increases ROI by x%. Obviously it increases it, but by what %. If a reg has tried both ways over some decent samples then this question would be put to rest.

Spot on here.

It's too bad, I read this whole 10 page thread hoping to get some decent insight or useful discussion about various $3.50 rebuy/add-on strategies and came away with:

1) A bunch of regs got into a d!ck swinging contest about who was arrogant and who wasn't that had nothing to do with rebuy options or the thread but about their graph results.

2) 80% of people that say to always double rebuy and always add-on "because it's better"

3) A few people talking about Shen and a mysterious single bullet strategy that got someone in trouble for even bringing up.

SO. Given a decent sample size (i.e., 1000 SnG's), what would people think the best ROI would be:

a) Double rebuy at start, double rebuy throughout, always add-on
b) Double rebuy at start, no rebuys after 150BB level, always add-on
c) Double rebuy at start, no rebuys ever, always add-on
d) Double rebuy at start, no rebuy, no add-on
e) Single buy at start, double rebuy throughout, always add-on
f) Single buy at start, no rebuys after 150BB level, always add-on
g) Single buy at start, no rebuys ever, always add-on
h) Single buy at start, no rebuy, no add-on

Obviously A is going to get you the most FT's and the highest winning%/cashes. So that's the "optimal" strategy to win the most often and no one contests that. That seems like what the first 3 pages of this thread answered. Which isn't really helpful. The real question is whether the improvement in FT's/cashes make up for what can be anywhere from 2-20x more investment in each SnG. As someone said very aptly, if you play 1000 of these a month, "simply" starting with a double rebuy increases your entry cost by $3190 a month. So you have to win twice as much to make up for that extra buy-in, which continues to increase based on the number of rebuys/addons. Has anyone done any statistical look at this over a variety of strategies to come up with an optimal strategy based on an accurate ROI per strategy (not sharkscope). Or is the best anyone has come up with "always double rebuy, always add-on cuz you win more"....

Without any statistical analysis I would guess that option A would be the most profitable considering the payout structure/extra chips to work with. I have seen some "regs" adopt a no double rebuy strategy and from my experience they seem to splash around alot more in the rebuy stage making their abi closer to the people who double rebuy during this stage and nit it up. Long samples would have to be accumulated by a number of different players to prove the efficiency of each strategy.

I don't think rebuying is 100% negative ev.

Always get first one. Poker tourney economy makes some start panicking buying and since they aren't limited means you loss too much value if you don't at the start.

If there was some crazy tourney which had a chip pot which rebuys an add one came from based on lower stacks first when needed.


I check average stack if have more than say 4x avg stack and add on is less than half a stack

I would like to hear the answer to this. I always hear double rebuy from the start, always add-on, always double-rebuy. More money you put into the tournament, the more you can win back (of yours and theirs). It's kind of like the idea of the Sunday Spark imo. $100k GTD for a $2 investment. People are willing to rebuy and add-on as many times and the prize pool becomes greater than the $100k then in effect, people see that the prize pool is more than $100k even though they are busting like crazy, thus they feel it's a better investment to rebuy again.

A better example, the lottery. Regular degens buy lottery tickets, prize grows to $100 mil, hype grows, more people who would not buy lottery tickets, buy tickets, pot grows passed $200mil and I think statistical odds are now in favor of at least buying a ticket (I forget), no one hits and now pot grows, etc, etc, $500 mil, etc, til someone hits it.

Of course, a SNG doesn't have this kind of strong effect for regs but it may slightly for the recreational user. Since these are reg-infested, it may not have the same mental effects. I can't personally speak, I get my butt whooped by the regs.

I think I will give the single bullet strategy a try. Just one tiny $3.50 investment, balls to the wall in each game and just move onto the next one. Honestly, I don't know.

I builded a bankroll at the 2.5$ 180 man and i slowly started the 3$R to evantually play totally at this level.

I am certain that rebuying after being eliminated is fishy. But for the add-on i am not certain. But it seams not a good deal.

The reason why i think it`s not good deal is the number of chips vs the blinds.
1 500 for 3$ rebuy whit 10-20 blinds vs 2 000 chips at 100-200.

Is it a good reason to not add-on?

And i also would like to know if 1 000$ is anaught for this level.

Addon almost always.
Think if your coming out of the rebuy session 3000 you will have 12BBs.
When you addon you have 20BBs almost twice as much.
I'd also say you need over $2k roll for this level.

I have read the 10 pages and im surprising to see how much peoples say to auto rebuy. To me it`s a mistake simililar to late registering a tournament. The prize is always around 500$ to first whatever u rebuy 2 or 10 times. So u want to late register 6$ or start a new one for the same price and same prizes... Logic no??? Lol Start a new one at 10-20!!!

Yess u will win more often buy auto rebuying... -_- how care??? The important is RETURN OF INVESTISMENTS and hourly earning.

The only exeption i rebuy after being out of chips is if i saw a fish pushing and calling any 2 cards or if im in a table majority fishy. Because 3$r is not very fishy i have sharkscope hud and at 2.5$ its 75% fish and 3$r only around 33% is fish theres a lot of good reg in 3$r but the 33% fish in 3$r do alot more mistake than 2.5$ ones. 1-They play looser. 2- They double rebuy when out of chips. And if we had the low fee the 3$r become a very profitable games.

So rebuy when out of chips is fishy because the blinds higher. My only interogation is the add-on? Because the 3$ for 2 000 more chip represent alot of investissement. i play 50 games per days so it represent -150$ per days.
Do the 2 000 more will make me win more than 150$ more? It`s hard to calculate. But 1500 at blinds 10-20 seams worth better than 2 000 at 100-200. And the first chips have better vaue than the last chips. I means, exemple, if u have 10 000 the first 5 000 worth more than the last 5 000. So the add-on have the less value of your stack.

So less chips u have. More the add-on have value. Up to now i add-on if im short stack and not add-on when well stacked. Untill i have proof that im wrong.

Yeh but you are over looking some positives by rebuying back into the tournament at blinds 250/125. You are back into a tournament that now has a lot of dead money in the prize pool and 40 - 60 less players to beat, for the same price. It will also take about 30 minutes less to win which means your hourly will be higher.

And you will be the shortest stack of the tourney whit close to 10bb. Or double rebuy a new one and be in the top of 180man whit 150bb and the chance to be whit 10K-30k at 100-200. And my hourly will not soffer if i maintain 15 tables open and alot of Final tables everydays.

I think it's good to always rebuy or double rebuy because the addon is a good deal: it's 2000 chips for the same price as the 1500 you have at the start. it's worth trying to stick around.

One annoying thing is that TableNinja2 doesn't always autorebuy me. It does so when I bust, but not when my stack goes below 1500. Did I misconfigure something somewhere, or is there no way around it?

Just go to options/Auto Rebuy (Tournaments) and select Automatically Rebuy/Whenever possible

just do this always...already said its most optimal at this point and if your under rolled, shouldn't be in these anyway imo...just treat it like any capped entry tournament but it has re-entries