I think I got out easy because SB jammed and BB re-jammed, which allowed me to assign BB with a tighter range.
If SB folded and BB 3bet, obviously it's a easy ship for us.
But if BB just jam, I would really have a hard time not snapping Jacks here

I am really not sure how people here say that shoving JJ here can be bad. It's a pure unexploitable shove that nets decent $EV. Also lol that reg in sb reshoves K3hh with no fold equity and 2 super shorties around.

Also BB range is much wider than "AJo ATs TT+", like much much wider because of the pot odds he getting and the amount of dead money in the pot and the fact that we can overcall with a really tight range.

If you shove actually . It will be much better because for the BB to call you will be much harder. I rethink that situation and I think that you should shove . He have to call you really really tight (the BB ) like QQ+ AQs+ AKo+ . When you shove SB wont call so wide. because there is 2players with 3bb and 6bb and I think he wont call wide .

I'll repeat. Open shoving is terrible.

what's the point of shoving anyway?
That is just turning into ur value hand into steal hands\

Why would you want to do it tho? BB will 3 bet fold a decent amount here and may jam some low pairs and ****.

I gave both guys pretty tight ranges, and its still +$EV

ICMIZER

the "Insert Image" didnt work above so here is the link

^ the stacks are all messed up in that image, sir. It's not +$ev.

What's wrong with the stacks?

you put hero as the wrong person

i call , no way im folding jacks ,if hes a reg , his range is not that tight as u think

Jacks is a clear fold

our perceived range is wide , also sb's range is kinda wide aswell , BB could easily have hands like AJo/KQ/AT/77+ , i dont know what edge we need in order for the push to be +EV according to icm but i dont fold this for any reason.

On large tournaments its worth to play chipev from time to time and play for first place.

I dont see any reason to ignore $EV and play for cEV. We are 5 handed so it doent matter if the tournament started with 27 players or 2000+. Just don't ignore ICM at this stage of the tournament.

I agree with this. This is a 8.7% range, about the same as I gave the bb.

Being ahead of BB range doesn't mean we should call, worst situation that could ever happen just happened and you need to accept this fact and fold for obvious ICM reasons.

even if we give them the widest ranges possible (sb shoving 35% and BB isoing with ATs 77), we're still at -1.75 %EV

This is really good thread, and at least it seems scientific that folding TT is correct.

I try to play only turbos for the reason that I never have to fold QQ, and I think BB has a lot wider range than many think.

Id call with JJ, but I have to study more. I used to be really good, but as the games get tougher my long breaks from the game force me to adjust my expectations.

You would call Santy, you bitch-slapped me twice last night in the same 180. AQ v A9, A9 v K9. They were probably +EV plays you made too. Suppose not a lot I can do v distinctly average players on a heater. GL.

I am definitely a lot more inclined to call here, as i am unsure how you have been playing previous, but assuming you're not clueless and have been min raise folding a fair amount in LP, the BB is going to ship a hell of a lot wider thinking you are stealing I would even put him on a range of QQ-77,A8s+,KQs,A9o+,KQo as I think many people are overlooking the fact that often a competent reg is going to flat AA and KK a bunch or min 4betting here to try and get you in the pot. And will be ISO-ing hands like A9o because he'll be thinking that you will fold a lot and sb can be doing this with Ax JQ hands and any PP. Wow thats a hell of a sentence.
I think that folding JJ is long run terrible because when you win this pot you are going to have 216k:20k:34k:9k and are almost guaranteed a top 2 spot.

I agree with the range.

Even knowing this it's a comfortable, hit the table, fold.

It's definitely a 'sick ICM spot', i'd be more inclined to fold, I don't think villain's shoving range is 88+, more like TT sometimes and AQs+. Folding because of ICM and move on. Never open shove.