Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
<img  45 man Flatting a 2.25x in BB with J8o ok with high antes? <img  45 man Flatting a 2.25x in BB with J8o ok with high antes?

05-11-2015 , 02:43 PM
    Poker Stars, $0.91 Buy-in (60/120 blinds, 15 ante) No Limit Hold'em Tournament, 9 Players
    Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

    CO: 3,426 (28.6 bb)
    BTN: 4,698 (39.2 bb)
    SB: 2,822 (23.5 bb)
    Hero (BB): 2,457 (20.5 bb)
    UTG+1: 1,896 (15.8 bb)
    UTG+2: 4,356 (36.3 bb)
    MP1: 3,333 (27.8 bb)
    MP2: 984 (8.2 bb)
    MP3: 3,047 (25.4 bb)

    Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 J
    5 folds, CO raises to 270, 2 folds, Hero calls 150

    Flop: (735) 5 T 5 (2 players)
    Hero checks, CO checks

    Turn: (735) 8 (2 players)
    Hero bets 367, CO folds



    This is a more general question (hopefully leading to a discussion) than just this hand.

    Pre-ante I would have probably folded this at this stage in the tournament, but with the new antes it seems to me that I am getting good pot odds to make all kinds of speculative calls from the BB. Even though the stacks are not that deep for implied odds we have really good immediate pot odds - like here it is nearly 4 to 1 and we should pick it up sometimes (like this time).

    Can we call 2.25x and similiar really wide now in these spots where the antes are more than one BB, if so how wide, or is this just wasting chips?
    05-12-2015 , 03:32 AM
    From the BB when your closing the action then yes. I wouldn't be calling from any other position though. This would be close to the bottom of my defending range in these kind of spots.
    05-12-2015 , 04:08 PM
    Defending more in general is prob OK, but I think this hand is too loose. Even if a J or 8 come, we're not in love with our hand if we face a flop bet and a turn bet (which with SPR is either a shove or close to it). We miss so often that it is a lot of c/f otf. I think the only way to make hands like this work is to have a decent amount of c/r bluffs in your range, but we are so short that it's a very risky move. In cash games or 100BB+ tourney spots, go for it, but there's just no room for FPS when under 30BB.

    Boring I know, but that's life in shortstack tourneys.
    05-12-2015 , 10:33 PM
    Yeah from the BB this is near the bottom of my range as well
    05-12-2015 , 11:13 PM
    Defend a lot out of the BB, and I mean A LOT.

    You can even defend from stacks as small as 9bbs since we are only flatting to hit and if we dont well just check/fold but well give ourselves the chance to flop big. Obviously were not folding any draw nor TP and will be really hard to fold middle pair.

    I know this might sound crazy to some but flatting that short wont affect our maneuverability and will give us a good chance to hit: it doesnt make a difference to play an 8bb stack or an 9bb stack but were reducing variance this way.

    Can understand other opinions but this is a tendency I see more and more from top notch winning regs.
    05-13-2015 , 12:37 AM
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ramabranch
    Defend a lot out of the BB, and I mean A LOT.

    You can even defend from stacks as small as 9bbs since we are only flatting to hit and if we dont well just check/fold but well give ourselves the chance to flop big. Obviously were not folding any draw nor TP and will be really hard to fold middle pair.

    I know this might sound crazy to some but flatting that short wont affect our maneuverability and will give us a good chance to hit: it doesnt make a difference to play an 8bb stack or an 9bb stack but were reducing variance this way.

    Can understand other opinions but this is a tendency I see more and more from top notch winning regs.
    I agree with part of this, in that in some ways it is paradoxically better to defend when shortshacked, because your postflop decision is basically go with it or not. But when you're around 20-40BB, I don't really want to stack off with MP on a Q82 or KJ5 type board. But if he barrels twice, you're either giving up a lot of equity when you fold turn (and a lot of chips), or you're saying that MPWK is the hill you're willing to die on. If you know he'll stab once and then give up, then defending to either hit or float OOP is a possibility, but you might just be booking a one-way ticket to valuetown.

          
    m