June No Take Candle! LC Thread - Page 6 - World of Warcraft -- Two Plus Two Poker Forums

Nofear3838 · 06-08-2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Low Key

So they're really taking the nerfs over 25% at some point?

I thought that was just some random bs someone made up

So... Is heroic gear really 25 - 30 - 35, whatever percent better than regular gear? Do you even need heroic gear to clear heroic madness once there's a 40% nerf in place?

Probably don't need it now tbh

I mean my two heroic kills last night were both one-shots with 5+ people not having done either on those particular toons (and I had a higher ilvl at 392 than most of them).

Granted, they were the easier fights, but I would think it most certainly could be done.

Aceium · 06-08-2012, 10:06 AM

How many guild would you prefer to be able to get a Heroic Madness kill?

topher123890 · 06-08-2012, 11:26 AM

I don't know what the "right" number is, but the whole point of heroic modes was that they were supposed to be harder and more exclusive. Normals were then supposed to allow players to still see the content, instead of only 10% or whatever of guilds being able to kill normal (I didn't really play pre-ICC so I don't know exactly what it was like). We're at 80% right now for normal DS, 68% in FL and roughly 70% in T11. Now we have lfr AND normal to allow players to "see the content", and we're still gonna end up with at least 15% if not 20% or more killing H Madness (after 4.0 the number of H Lich King kills looks like it roughly doubled, so I imagine something like that will happen again).

I'd like to think that even if the "right" number didn't include my guild I would be still be content, but I have no idea if that's actually true or not. But for what it's worth, I was never unhappy about not clearing content until FL in my old guild. And that has nothing to do with the difficulty of the raid and everything to do with the guild I was in. I was perfectly fine back in ICC when my group couldn't even kill normal Lich King until 4.0.

I'd also like to think that DS was the exception and not the rule, since T11 and T12 heroics both had something like 2-3% clear rates (at least I think heroic Rag was around 3% pre-4.3, the geyser nerf plus extra gear really makes the fight a complete pushover, so the 8% it's at right now doesn't really indicate it's true difficulty). But I'm worried that might not be the case.

At the very least, I hope we don't end up getting double digit percent kills of a tier's final boss(es) again, and I REALLY hope we don't get anywhere near 20% like we'll probably end up at least close to for DS.

But I know everything in this game revolves around gear, and players will start quitting when things are too hard for them and they can't get any more gear. So I guess my real issue is with the community, not Blizzard, since Blizzard needs to make money.

Aceium · 06-08-2012, 11:37 AM

But why does 20% of guilds killing it when they have months worth of heroic gear and perhaps 5.0 talents bother you? You guys killed it while it was still un-nerfed and with only a few weeks worth of 397 and 410 gear (10 man at that) if I'm not mistaken. I'm certainly not going to argue that people getting their first kill now is anywhere close to the same difficulty as a guild that kills on a hardcore progression timeline.

This line of thinking doesn't exactly make my Mage with Light of Dawn brag-worthy, but that's the point I'm trying to illustrate. He got the title a few months ago, and I'd give the Heroic Lich King kill numbers today about the same weight I'd give the numbers on December 6, 2010. It's a cool title and accomplishment but I'm not under any illusion that people see "the Light of Dawn" today and think you're a great player.

If I see someone with "Savior of Azeroth" I'm going to think they can hold their own in a raid and must have a solid group they run with. If I see see a Savior in February or March I'm thinking they're pretty elite.

topher123890 · 06-08-2012, 11:48 AM

We killed it at 10%, but I know what you're saying.

Even if we don't look at where the numbers end up when MoP is released, they're still a little out of control right now. We're 6 months into the tier, which is about how long T11 and T12 lasted, and both of those saw 2-3% clear rates during that time (and that includes the nerf for FL). So even if we look at the same time frames, we're already at 9%, 3+ times as much as T11 and T12. Granted T11 didn't include a nerf to the heroics. I was only comparing DS to ICC because they were both the expansion-ending raid and they both got progressively nerfed.

Hopefully it's just a DS thing though, I guess time will tell

Low Key · 06-08-2012, 12:27 PM

Technically ICC wasn't the expansion-ending raid. There was a little thing called Ruby Sanctum.

topher123890 · 06-08-2012, 12:28 PM

Do you really think 1 boss counts?

Low Key · 06-08-2012, 01:35 PM

It was a new raid!

That's like saying Al'Akir doesn't count as part of t11 or something

Low Key · 06-08-2012, 01:40 PM

Oh, after farming all the junkboxes I need, I'm half-tempted to faction xfer my rogue so's I can grief the AH bots in SMC. Would love to see how they behave when the auctioneer they're camped on top of is dead.

topher123890 · 06-08-2012, 01:44 PM

I mean yeah, technically Halion was the expansion-ending boss. But I doubt anyone actually feels like that was the last fight of the expansion. You can just take a look at the number of kills, 84k guilds killed Marrowgar on 10 normal. Only 34k killed Halion 10 normal (both of those numbers were well over 99% of guilds, according to wowprogress, whatever that means). Of course there was lots of new guilds forming and old guilds dying etc. between ICC's release and RS's release, but I really doubt that would account for a 50k difference.