Agreed that SilverVIP would get me to the same rakeback % as playing through a RB affiliate, assuming no rakechase/lotto prizes. The rakechase/lotto prizes are just a bonus so yes I will switch to VIP when I get to Silver.

i am a FR rakeback player clearing a bonus. I have calculated my effective RB to be ~67% currently. I have done some calculations and figure whiteVIP once i get there would give me about 75%... does this sound right?

Wouldn't surprise me: the bonus is really good for FR players.

Depends on if your tables are always full and what stakes. They can switch you over from one to the other within 30 minutes or so, I would suggest switching and playing a certain amount of hands and calculating exactly how much rakeback you got (bonus+cashback+point value). If it's less than 67%, switch back .

^^This is assuming you don't plan on having a huge MGR and cleaning up on the rake chases.

So after playing as a RB player today, I actually earned VIP points roughly twice as fast as when I was WhiteVIP. I'm at a loss as to what to think now, something clearly went wrong when I originally switched from RB to VIP.

Not neccessarily, see, what I've noticed is that everyone seems to think that "math" is the only guidance here and that Lock is either screwing people, going broke or idiots...yet, here we all are still playing. Most "American" business models take into account the first year of business will be a success if it actually breaks even. Most "Americans" take it for granted that the "haves" will screw the "have nots" whether it makes "business" sense or not.

Reality is that business' have employees which most of the time are human beings prone to error. Sometimes they're automated employees prone to human manipulation...all are prone to greed. Few like to work, but most do what they hate in order to make money. Few seem able to understand that lots like to "make" money in order to not have to do what they hate.

Its never ceased to amaze me how so many find it so "amazing" that a criminal would actually steal from THEM. I actually do like to think that a site "run by players for players" is trying to in the long term do the right thing. But I also have seen players with it all wanting it all...ahem, Howard.

Take the double points, be happy. If you're able to make a living w/online poker, be happy. If you like to play & have found a way (like me) be happy. Over analyzing for a couple extra bucks in the long run really ain't worth it. If it is, start saving aluminum cans for recycling..****ch more gratifying i assure you.

Cheers,
John

that is definitely strange. Once I hit white VIP I will try myself for a day and report back my findings..

as for the post above me.... wtf

Since 01-01-13 My MGR is $187.51 and I've earned 677 VIP points.

But I've only received $19.35 in VIP Cashback payments according to my vault.

This is like 10.3% - am I missing payments here or am I calculating something wrong?

Did you get my email reply to your other question?

I can look into both of these things for you as soon as you send over your account details so I can find your account.

This is all confusing... How can someone get over 100% RB?

In theory, one can get greater 100% effective rakeback if you combine:

<> a deposit bonus on top of
<> VIP cashback payments on top of
<> the value you earn by cashing in VIP points on top of
<> rakechase earnings on top of
<> any other promotions (ie lock lotto)

I see, most of those I would get anyways. I don't deposit since I swap here. And the lotto I never done or won. And rake chase I don't play as much. But thanks
I think RB is better for me. I think anyways

Thanks, I'm curious to know what you experience.

Now my concern is if 100+% equivalent RB is possible, it will be abused by players and Lock Poker will not make any money.
This will lead to their cash flow problem, and a possible shutdown. Then we lose our fund like what happened to fulltilt (FT was saved only because PS bought them).
Am I overly concerned?

100% rakeback is only available to a set number of players. I really doubt more then like 10 players have 100%+ rakeback.

I see. Now I understood.

In my case (RB), my MGR for this month is $649.63, RB is $233.85, and VP is 3,602 Pts.
So, I am getting exactly 36% RB, and roughly 5.5 pts/$1 raked.
According to your previous post, you said roughly 5 pts/$1 raked, which is actually close to what I am earning as a RB player.

Do RB player and VIP player earn the same amount of VIP points?

If so, I would like to compare a couple of scenarios playing 6-max cash games.
Since rakechase and other craps are limited to a certain number of players, I would like to ignore them.

Case 1: RB, Bonus, VP conversion
RB = 36%
Bonus = 1/2*(30% according to your estimate) = 15%
VP = 5.5 pts/$1 raked ~ 7%
TOTAL = 58% RB EQUIVALENT

Case 2: VIP Silver, Bonus, VP conversion
RB = 25%
Bonus = 30%
VP ~7%
TOTAL = 62% RB EQUIVALENT

Case 3: VIP White, Bonus, VP conversion
RB = 15%
Bonus = 30%
VP ~ 7%
TOTAL = 52% RB EQUIVALENT

Is this correct?
If so, isn't it better to stick to RB until one hits VIP Silver?

RB players and VIP players do NOT earn the same amount of VIP points, this is from an email from support:

"For VIPs/Non-Rakeback players, Frequent Player Points (FPPs) are earned as follows:

For each $1 raked at a cash table where you are dealt cards, you will earn 1 FPP, accurate to the penny.
For example: If your table raked $1.25, you will receive 1.25 FPP"

RB players earn at exactly half this rate.

Your MGR is $ raked at the table divided by the number of players in the hand, so you can't accurately calculate your VPP per $ raked simply by VPP/MGR.

It really depends on the stakes you play/number of avg. players at your table to which one is better. It has been my experience that RB is between 5-10% better until I hit SilverVIP, to which they are effectively equal until you add on Rake Races/Promos, then SilverVIP is better. This is assuming you are always clearing a bonus, of course. I play 20PLO-50PLO six max for what its worth.

If you're OCD like me and want to be certain you are maximizing your RB, just play 5K hands at your regular stakes on RB, then play 5K hands at VIP, and go with whichever one put more money into your account

It -could- be because you're OCD, but i think most people (also without OCD) would want to max. their profit, especially while you're playing poker..

Also, seems pretty accurate. SilverVIP and beyond = be VIP for sure.

Haha you're right that OCD isn't the right word but i wanted to use something that sounded less arrogant than "ruthlessly efficient"

Yep, one thing is for sure: taking the few minutes time it takes to calculate all the differences will far outweigh the time you'd otherwise spend playing.

What is OCD?
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder?

That is incorrect. It is Obsessive-compulsive disorder. Do not capitalize the last two words.

Hmm, so I guess half point thing would affect 7% RB equivalent part.
I would say roughly 54% for the RB player based on the correction.

It would still be the same order for a 6-max player as long as he is clearing bonus.
VIP Silver > Rakeback > VIP White

Without bonus, RB would be the best choice until VIP Black.
VIP Black > Rakeback > VIP Silver > VIP White

lol

So I have raked 6K or so the last two months... how much money have I lost being on RB instead of VIP?