Question 1

Question (Part A): Why won't Lock's CS, email team, live support, and/or anyone associated with helping players give an honest figure when asked regarding accurate cashout times from request to cash/check in hand? To date, the current cashout times when you approach a live agent is 4-5 weeks for WU, and 6-8 weeks for checks or ROW payments (Neteller, Skrill, etc.). This is an integral question, because this ends up bringing in new players (as they may be frustrated from other Rev skins, or Merge skins, for example) and then they are subject to some of the wait times we've seen in this forum.

Question (Part B): Since the answer to the above has been told to me to be rooted in the undesirable nature of using older cashout data as a barometer of current timeframes, why won't Lock get more publicly behind my efforts in tracking cashouts posted on this forum, and/or helping to make the data as complete as possible, instead of publicly denying its effectiveness (or defending others who misuse the data) as a general sample of player experiences? As Shane has stated to me, Lock is in need of someone who reports the facts as they are instead of slanting generalities to further their own agendas. I can think of few better ways to near this aim than to endorse these efforts and to at least acknowledge that it is somewhat indicative of current timeframes as a whole - moreso than most others who don't do the research.

I have included the data I have collected from May 1st until July 19th, 2013 with this question - this is all reported cashouts that have been received in various threads in this Lock forum, double-checked and verified by screenname so as to not have duplicate information.



Thanks.

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From http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...45&postcount=2

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Shane you made the following post:

We give players the best estimate based on the information on hand at the time but US processing is very challenging and things can change overnight with this type of processing.**

Your online support is still quoting 4-5 weeks for WU. This is clearly not a best estimate as you have been receiving emails, FB responses, and inquiries from 2+2ers that are waiting 3-4 months. 4-5 weeks is beyond optimistic and does not seem to be a best or even accurate estimate for current or new customers. Do you plan to update these estimated times and when do you plan on doing this?

Allow me to update the cataloged data on reported cashouts for Lock Poker. 6 more checks and 2 more WU's reported received in the past 4 days.

Q2A. Requested, Verified, Completed. All cashouts are manually reviewed by the security team in the requested stage. Some processors have automated responses so you will only get completed when the cashout is complete, for others completed will mean the cashout has left our system and is with the processor.

Q2B. Some delays are from security investigations, others are from processing backlogs. For example if we have batches with all our processors and we are waiting for them to be sent out still, new cashouts will sit in their queue in either the requested or verified stage.

Q2A

Okay, so for these steps that you perform internally, before you send it to the processor could you elaborate:

Requested- How long on average. What is being done?
Verified- How long on average. What is being done?
Completed- How long on average. What is being done?

See if you can walk me through this in a little more detail. I'd like to wrap my head around a 4-12 week process from requested to completed, before it gets to the processor.


Q2B

You said:

All cashouts are manually reviewed by the security team in the requested stage.

But then:

new cashouts will sit in their queue in either the requested or verified stage.

How can they be with the processor in the "requested" stage if they have to go through the requested stage at Lock?

Do all cashouts go through the Requested, Verified, Completed stages at Lock before going to the processor to cut the check?

Currently they are giving timeframes of 4-5 weeks for WU, and 6-8 weeks for checks or ROW payments (Neteller, Skrill, etc.)


The fact that your report relies on the only public information available doesn't make it accurate. You have tracked 117 cashouts over just under 3 months, we have processed a great deal more than that, many of which obviously don't make it to your report.

Im not doubting the work you put into your report, but your data is collected from a singular source and the scope of your report will always be hindered by this. Your report does highlight that we still have a problem with some old cashouts waiting to be be cleared, but we also know that without your report.



No, batches arent a consistant size. Processors can change our limits week to week and ROW cashouts are dependant on what wires we can get through to restock our eWallets. So the situation changes constantly.

Shane.

If you can not identify all of your current customers who are now over 4 months past due, and then give them a time frame as to when they will be paid based on your weekly batch cycles and changing situations.

Then how can you tell your new customers that WU cash outs are 4-5 weeks and and 6-8 weeks for checks or ROW payments???

We could tell those customers who have been waiting 4 months that their cashout will come in 4-6 weeks too, but it seems that after disappointing those players several times already with delivery times that weren't me the cashier team is avoiding giving specific times and just trying to process them all as quickly as possible.

You are missing the point and you did not see what I did there. I am not saying you should tell your existing customers who are waiting 4 months that their cash out will come in 4-5 weeks.

I am asking you why you are telling your new customers that their cash out time is 4-5 weeks when you have strong indications it will be 4-5 months? Now do you see the point?

Q2A. I dont have access to that data and I doubt the cashier team will give it to me to post here, but I have sent them a request.

Q2B. No they can sit in the queue in our end as well. The stage markers in the cashier are triggered by different events depending on the processors and how their systems work, so from verified to completed will mean different things between different cashout options and if there are multiple processors for an option there could also be a difference within a cashout option.

I have seen some cashouts jump straight to completed skipping verified.

There arent strong indications it will be 4-5 months. The status of our processing at the time those delays were caused was nothing like what it is now.

But we were told that cashouts would be significantly better around over a month ago. They were not improved nearly enough, as people are STILL waiting on more recent withdrawals for 6-7+ weeks easily. So why on Earth would any of us believe that suddenly TODAY you really mean it.

Are you telling me that if 20 2+2 users request withdrawals TODAY, that 18/20 of us will receive them by September 4th? That would be 6 weeks from today. Because in all honesty, you would have sworn the same things 2 months ago when you were making promises in late May, Shane.

I'm at the point, like many others, where the strong belief is that another magically unfortunate circumstance would come about to excuse WHY withdrawal times were once again delayed.

Okay. Let me simply this. You have a US client with a WU option and Lock is going to handle the Request, Verified, Completed and then ship it off to the processor. Give me an idea on what Lock does and some average times. Here is an example:

Request- We get the request, open email 1 week, print hard copy 1 week, put on clerks desk 2 weeks
Verify- Match up customer information to Excel worksheet 4 weeks
Complete- Put directions in envelope 1 week, lick envelope 2 weeks, put in outgoing batch package 1 week.

For starters its not magically unfortunate circumstances, situations crop up all the time and its not magic its a part of doing business in the US market. And its not just us, look at the recent problems our competitors have had lately, checks delayed horribly and one losing the ability to process Skrill and another losing WU.

I definitely wouldnt have sworn that back in May, I knew we had things in place in May but I also knew that the backlog was huge and wasnt going to clear up instantly so I definitely wasnt giving specific timeframes.

If a cashout option is listed as 6 weeks now, then yes if 20 people make a request through that method tomorrow most of them should have their cashout in hand inside 6 weeks. I spent last week confirming with the cashier manager and management that they were confident those times would be met and they gave me assurances they would be. If there are any setbacks in that period I would expect those times to be revised fairly quickly.

Just a heads up for everyone Its nearly 4am so Im going to get some sleep. I will be back in the morning to answer a new set of questions and any new follow ups.

Shane,

I'm not asking what you see on a status report. I am more interested in the physical process that is occurring. Can you break this down. Again, lets say US customer with WU option, generates a cash out. What happens? Imagine yourself sketching this out in a flow chart. And imagine you have to label the process, steps, and time frames. And just pick any old processor for me and lets roll with it. Like we are talking about logistics. Did you know that I audited one of the largest logistics companies in the world recently? But that is a story for another day.....thanks