Zack, Logan, im telling you guys. It would hurt like hell at the beginning but i think in the long run it would make grinding more enjoyable. As far as it cutting into your bottom line. LB would be pretty much unaffected since games would be longer for everyone. Since the games would now be more skillbased itd negate the variance of the streaker since better players would be even more likely to hit better streaks now. It might give non ST players a better chance of making the lb, but honestly dont they deserve that. As far as rb, yeah youd take a hit. But these sick RB deals some of us have are done when Lock moves to cake anyways.

Whats the most games anyone got at the new structure? I think any arguments about how much longer the games take or better winrates need to wait til we have a bigger sample. Avg game time is dependent on how you run early so it could be grossly skewed with a small sample. And we all know that even with redline, you need 5k+ games to get even a decent picture of your winrate.

Will be interesting to see what will happen if newLock switches to deeper starting stacks and Merge keeps the old format.

Only 128 games; average was 9.0 minutes; old structure average is 6.0 minutes.

well over a 30k game sample my red line is .5% which leads to swings that can take a year to get over and I only have a standard 35% or so rakeback acct so I do have a lot to gain from this no lie but I'm positive in the new structure I could pull in 3% red line in the 11s. As for time/ average game that doesn't even matter to me very much because during the fringe times I play these days (evening-night) I can't even get more than 6 or 7 games running at a time cus volume has crashed lately so not like the longer games could hurt my volume that much... the current land scape has ****ed that up more than anything

Yeah man, I think you might be totally right about the part I bolded. In the small sample of games I played, I had a bunch of randoms (and even some of the regs I have labelled as "decent") made some really horrible plays, 3 betting and calling 3 bets with junk, as if they had no clue how to adjust to the change whatsoever. Then you had guys open jamming from UTG with A7o, which is just a beautiful thing in general.

I think some of the guys were just upset because we had absolutely no warning that this was gonna happen. In fact, my first table under the new format, I didn't realize it had switched over, and I shoved 88 from MP, and won a flip against AK, fortunately.

I don't mind it either way, especially since Lock is leaving Merge next month. I'm probably gonna have to adjust to a new format anyways, likely one with a 65/35 payout. I'm PRETTY sure I'll stick to Lock, but obviously I'm gonna go where the money is, which means it's possible that I'll play on a different Merge skin as well.

Because of those changes, it kind of makes this conversation less than practical. I'm just kind of waiting and seeing what the month of June has in store for us. At any rate, there should be a much larger player pool for the grinders to work with, which is always a good thing!

The player pool is gonna drop, mate.

I was referring to the total player pool between the new network and the Merge network, as I expect a large number of grinders are going to at least consider playing on both sites. In addition, the number of grinders on each site will be diluted, because some will be on one, and some will be on another.

How much do we need to add to current ROI in the face of reduced games per hour, in order to keep that hourly?

* algebra warning *


Variables please!

• G := current games per hour
• R := current ROI (including rakeback, etc)
• B := Buy-In
• D := factor by which games per hour will decrease (D*G will be the new games per hour).
• I := amount of ROI increase needed (R+I will be the new ROI needed to get the same hourly).

So current hourly = G*R*B,
new hourly = D*G*(R+I)*B,

and we want the new hourly to be the same as the current hourly:

D*G*(R+I)*B = G*R*B




Solve for I to find out how many % points we need to increase ROI:

D*G*(R+I)*B = G*R*B

D*(R+I) = R

D*R + D*I = R

D*I = R-D*R
= R*(1-D)

I = R*(1-D)/D




Example: Say we have 4% total ROI and our games per hour drops by 2/3.

I = 4%*(1-2/3)/(2/3)
= 4%*(1/3)/(2/3)
= 4%*(1/2)
= 2%

So we need to increase our total ROI by 2% to 6%



Notice that the increase we need is proportional to our current total ROI. That means the players with larger ROIs (sick rakeback deals?) will have a more difficult time making up the difference when games per hour is decreased. Then there is also the possibility that the ROI portion from rackeback is decreased due to things like rake races or other volume-based promotions, in which case we need to make up even more in pre-rb ROI.


* Personally in favor of the new structure. *

I doubt the changes will ever be permanent for two reasons.

1) The structure change would almost certainly lead to less rake/hr for the network.

2) The highest volume players on the network resist the change because it will very likely hurt their $ hourly. That is not to say that the decrease in games/hour can't be made up in increased edge/game, but it likely won't be these guys accomplishing it(at least at first).

At least for the HUSNGs, you'd see a higher hourly for the grinders.

Rake per hour would be minimally different, and players (both casual and grinders) would be happier (isn't that a bit more important than slight rake/hr differences?).

Sorry for derail, won't continue to derail 6max debate, gl guys!

The current super turbo/hyper turbos on cake have a much better structure compared to lock. Im guessing new lock will keep cakes structures with maybe a few updates. If not at least switch to full tilts structure cause merge supers have probably the worst structures ever

Can you describe in detail the current Cake structure? I don't know it at all.

They have 6m and 9m, 2-minute blinds, with 25bb (hyper), 50bb (short stack super), and 75bb (super) starting stacks available.

6m payouts are 65/35; 9m are 45/30/25

Eh, 50 and 75 BB starting stacks are just way too much. I like the idea of 2 minute blinds though.

JHub was posting on some site before 2+2 was back up, asking regs what we wanted. I have a feeling we'll probably have something close to the old FTP structure, which is gonna be excellent, and will hopefully lead to big potential ROIs.

ya, the 25bb hypers are very similar to the current Stars hypers (without the antes). That or the old FTP structure would be very nice imo.

Someone made the comment to use Stars structure to potentially entice players over from there.

9max hypers 1x plsplsplsplsplsplpslpls