Let me preface this a couple of ways first - I'll try to be short and concise so as to not be posting a giant wall of text. I am a Lock affiliate thought haven't made a dime through my affiliation (just host the weekly Wednesday 2+2 deep-stack tournament). I have also in the past held Merge's feet to the fire when it came to customer service and have always stated that I would do the same to any room when it was deserved.

Personally, any issue I've ever had with Lock has been resolved by support or Shane with alacrity, and that was before I became an affiliate. My personal experience with Lock has largely been positive overall. However, I am now starting to see a few of the things that set me off about Merge happening with Lock, and now more than ever, it's time they got in front about this and did a total 180 degree turn on how they've approached true customer service en masse.

There is no reason why Lock couldn't be the #1 poker skin in terms of customer service today (aside from Pokerstars - there is Pokerstars, and then there is everyone else, of course). When problems arise, most of the time, if they are truly beyond someone's control, people are going to be generally patient as long as the company experiencing the issues are prompt, up front, and genuine with people. In some instances, Lock has not been. This should change starting today, with a renewed approach to taking the lead and easing player concerns about current issues.

No one is saying that Lock should spill the beans about trade secrets or divulge critical financial information - however, explaining some reasons as to why issues are taking place is not a national security concern. Specifically with regard to cash-out times, Western Union, and their "new cashier" system, a representative needs to take charge and properly come to the people with an explanation that will at the very least ease concerns.

These are questions that should not need to remain in a veil of secrecy and misinformation, or platitudes of script-based responses:

1. Why was the Western Union option withdrawal option shut down, and when will it return?

2. What is the current status of the new cashier, and when will it be finished? What has been the reason for the delay, and why has there been delays in its implementation?

3. Why has Lock continued to use misleading cash-out time information? (Example: saying 7-14 business days for "approval" or "processing") Will Lock, starting today, implement a more honest account of the average complete and real wait time expected for cash-outs? (as in: if the current average is two months, tell the player withdrawing that that is the average wait time - from time of request to check-in-hand)

Additionally, representatives here in the Lock Poker forum from Lock should also be instructed to answer specific questions with specific answers - again, they don't need to reveal industry secrets or the location of Hoffa's body. Just be up front, honest, and as full with information as possible to best help players with legitimate concerns.

Now, on the flip side - if Lock were to agree to this and actually started this right now, then the players as well should be held to a similar standard when an issue arises. Too often, many players that are angry about an issue (legitimately or not) will simply seek to extract vengeance instead of seeking reciprocity. And personal attacks on reps like Shane, who are not responsible for Lock's policies and have to operate under the current structure laid out by the admin of Lock, don't serve anything and only cause inflammation of the issues at hand instead of coming up with a solution. Treat people, live support, Shane, and their email support with respect, and at the very least we may get somewhere.

I honestly don't have a vested interest in Lock Poker - I enjoy playing there and seem to do decently well, and I'd like to continue that. And I don't like seeing all the nastiness that occurs, both by players or by the admin. I know this is shades of gathering under the trees and singing "Kumbaya" - but maybe some true public discourse will serve to bring players better information and keep them playing at Lock...which is the goal anyway, right? Lock has a tremendous opportunity to be tops in a post-BF poker world in most facets of online poker (service, software, games - again, discounting PStars and FT) - and right now, today, they can decide that they want to be that company and stave off a lot of the vitriol that exists. Or, they can continue as they are, and become Merge, eventually. It's in their hands.

It's all about accountability. What do you say, Lock? Can it be done?

Great post, I agree with everything here.

seems unlikely

VERY nice post!! and live support stil says WU will be back very shortly but they dont know whenthey also told me its only been down a few days or so,, but i t hink a been a few weeks now.I wold not want to be shane, in this atmosphere of lock tday either i,m sure thers nothing he can really do. I< mainly just feel sorry for a friend whos still waiting on WU from mid october too.I do hope lock can f ix thier probs tho and come back and bring WU back too GL every1.

Perhaps...but I think holding their feet to the fire on this is the least we can do to try to stem the tide before it becomes Merge 2.0 - you'd think Lock would like to avoid that.

As far as their "image" to a lot of the collective online community - one step at a time. There have been a lot of instances of irreparable harm done, but that doesn't mean work can't be done to try to rectify it. A civil, concerted, yet forceful approach to this is again...the least we can do.

I understand what you're saying here, and would like to see it happen as well, but I think you're missing the fact that Lock's audience isn't limited to just thoe active in the poker community, the regs, the professionals grinders, affiliates, etc. Most of us would be understanding if they were candid about cashout issues and would appreciate the ability to plan better using that info. But there are also the rec players, the players who come to poker forums sporadically or not at all, and also new players who have never played on Lock. Fairly or not, many these players are not going to be nearly as understanding if Lock starts divulging bad news about their cashier. So I think Lock's incentive to be more forthcoming is limited. The grinders have proven repeatedly that they will stay with Lock despite significant problems (see the June launch), so I just dont think it will be in their interest to appease us and risk scaring off other segments of the player base.

I do agree about us treating the support and CS people with respect. Berating them gets nowhere. Polite but persistent requests for info can obviously have an effect. I echo your desire to have better information about what's going on right now, particularly with regard to W/U coming back.

Shane/Rizen/etc. -any additional guidance you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Hope you are able to divulge more. Thanks.

I wish.

to boneralert (there's a joke there somewhere...lol): Being vague and non-specific is the problem, though. Oh I understand that many who play on Lock don't come here or even really keep apprised of what's going on. Not necessarily just trying to get them to open up for our sole benefit. But if they are having problems and address what they are doing to fix it, wouldn't that be better than what they are saying now, even for the casual player? They look better as being an honest company than leaving folks to their own whims as to what may be going on.

No company is going to come out and say they are having financial problems - not expecting them to say that if that is indeed the case. But unfounded suspicion often arises when little to nothing is said, and in the end, I believe that does more harm to a company, particularly in this industry, then any that might come from being honest. It's the old adage - better to appear not at your best than appear inept.

Part of the problem is that whenever they do answer a question/concern, it leads to 3 more questions. Then they appear even less forthcoming. I think this is why in some situations they take the position that it would be better to just say nothing. Posters haven't exactly been gracious, polite, and understanding, as you've pointed out.

In regards to the three #'d questions you've posed; I think the first two are too directly related to processors for Lock to answer, that information is proprietory. I somewhat agree that Lock should be more honest about actual cashout timeframes if possible. But I also see boneralerts point, and I do want them to remain competetive when it comes to attracting new players. The real solution is to get those timeframes down, and more uniform.

I guess what I'm getting at is that different types of players are going to view the sites differently to begin with. Those of us more in the know are in a bubble concerning how we view them. We are well aware of all the issues they've had, understand the problems with getting cashouts to US players, and have a context to place all this in, having played on most if not all of the post-BF US facing sites. Our expectations regarding customer service, communication and product quality have been tempered over the last 18 months. What we may not realize is that many rec players have little to no idea about this stuff. They may have had some trouble depositing or something, but this also happened sometimes on Full Tilt and Stars. But they basically have artificially high standards for how they expect a company to operate. They may have some vague idea that online poker is shady or in a gray area, but they won't necessarily have intimate knowledge of the reality for US players at the moment.

For a site like Lock to broadcast their internal struggles, to give more realistic time frames for cashouts or to expound on the reason for the suspension of WU is going to to take many of these players by surprise and may scare some of them off. It's not just that I think this may be the case - I do - but also that Lock possibly does, and they realize it's not worth risking a reputation hit among rec players just to appease a segment of customers whose patronage is unfortunately fairly inelastic.

That's absolutely ridiculous

Boneralert, every player in the US that plays on Lock poker is fully aware of Black Friday and the US poker climate. It was major news, people that don't even play poker know something went down, people that are seeking online sites to play like Lock know a good amount about poker. Even the fish saw they couldn't get onto Stars or FTP and looked into it.

OP was very well written and composed. Really hope this carries over to management or whoever has the ability to give us some clarity.

Here's to hoping

Have tried to communicate with Shane but to no avail, even though he appears online on Skype...

It was never my intention to try to make accusations or further innuendo. As I said in the OP - if I'm to be critical of one skin for customer service-related issues, I should be critical of any when I see it occur, whether I'm affiliated with them or not. It's too bad that Lock will very likely ignore this post, because they have a grand opportunity here to prove to people (whether they are regs, newbs, or fish) they are concerned about players and their legitimate issues...so long as they are presented respectfully, as I believe I have here.

Guess my eternalistic optimism takes another small hit....lol.

Firstly the on the call for more details on processing, this is impossible in the current environment. We are already working in an environment where the goal posts are constantly moving. If we detail more of our processing details we will no longer have processing.

1. Why was the Western Union option withdrawal option shut down, and when will it return?

As I stated previously, this came down while we were integrating it into our poker processor. The lastest update I have is it will be back very shortly, but no fixed date yet.

2. What is the current status of the new cashier, and when will it be finished? What has been the reason for the delay, and why has there been delays in its implementation?

Creating something like this from scratch is very heavy on dev time, with ongoing problems we have faced since the move to revolution its been difficult to stay on top of both things at the same time. This is compounding by everything being involved with processing being very complicated. There is no exact release date yet.

3. Why has Lock continued to use misleading cash-out time information? (Example: saying 7-14 business days for "approval" or "processing") Will Lock, starting today, implement a more honest account of the average complete and real wait time expected for cash-outs? (as in: if the current average is two months, tell the player withdrawing that that is the average wait time - from time of request to check-in-hand)

Aside from these recent batches the majority of cashouts were going out in the advertised timeframes. The recent cases are the exception not the rule which is why support havent changed their timeframes.

That is a complete lie.
Not only have your recent batch not come thru in that time, its been 3 months of this.

Even my affiliate told me to expect to wait longer then the 15 days, and yet you come in here with all the posts in the cashout thread and otherwise and have the audacity to tell us that its only the recent batch?

Its been like this for a while, change your policy and stop lying to us.

People wouldn't be this upset if it was just the recent batch, or just confined to one type of payment processing, but you guys have had trouble across the board.
Western Union, Checks, and Skrill.

Can't wait to see how you explain my most recent cash out and the two previous (done over the past 3 months casue of course it takes forever) are just the 'recent' batch.

Its probably 'just' my cash outs that are delayed too.

^


couldn't see it said better

To clarify, I wasn't or haven't heard anyone legitimate call for skins to divulge or name specific processors. My point was that without compromising them due to the "current climate", Lock could stand to be more "real" with players, as most of them understand that to offer play to people, particularly to US players, certain measures are taken. However, the answer provided doesn't aid ROW players, who shouldn't have to worry about processors the same way us in the US do - particularly those in places where there is little to no restrictions on online play. Trust comes when players can rely on a skin to honor their commitments (namely cashouts), and I don't see how the "current climate" gives Lock, or any other skin, immunity to simply throw up the blanket response when a feasible alternative is presented.

Just looking for a simple answer to a simple question. "Very shortly" is disingenuous at best and is exactly the type of response I was talking about where Lock could vastly improve. Nobody is saying that you have to pick an arbitrary date and hold to it at any cost - we're simply saying that with all of the available information Lock has to calculate a timeframe, saying "very shortly", and then a week later saying the same thing, makes Lock look bad. And with some folks, you only get one shot to make a good impression.

I've seen this response before, and while I have little doubt of the immensity and complexity of developing a cashier system, again, we are left to wonder what sort of problems have caused the delays in getting this done. All the while, the player suffers as a consequence, and frankly, without accountability, Lock could say this from now until the end of time and not have to elaborate at all. See what I mean?

This is by far my biggest issue. The rest...alright...there is room for debate, I suppose. But sir, you completely missed my point. Lock is playing semantics by saying 7-14 business days to begin with, and further with the "processing", "approval", "reversal", "denial", etc. timeframes and verbage that follow. To wit: if the average wait time for a WU withdrawal request is 22 calendar days, from moment of request until the MTCN number is sent to the player, why even mention "business days" and fail to mention the other steps in the process in a clear, concise manner once a player makes their request? An email is generated once a player makes a request - surely someone could add "and here is the precise format that a cashout entails" with the process laid out, no? Instead the player wonders why their money shows up in their casino balance or back into their poker account, or struggles and searches high and low to find the MTCN whenever it shows up. This is precisely the point that I and others are trying to make. Say "the average wait for MTCN in hand is 22 calendar days", and include the process in the initial email. Why is this so difficult?

I thought it was just a "batch" that had the delay issues, but as I look back through historical threads in the Lock section, I can see that this has been a problem for MANY months and has involved ROW players as well as US and has been across all forms of cashouts.

This is the main thing that I don't like about Lock operations and decisions. It's things like Shane's posts that are completely untrue that are what's wrong with their company.

So Lock makes already frustrating conditions even that much more so.

Shane has told people to send him their details and he would look into their situation and then never responded back to them with an update or taken weeks to months to do so. I have never seen him once apolgize for this to anyone publicly, but maybe I missed where he has. This tells me that he either doesn't understand that he's doing his customers and Lock a disservice or that he doesn't care.

Unfortunately these are not behaviors and policies that change over night.

Its difficult cause they hardly have enough revenue to keep running as is, and if they advertise longer cash out times they'll have even less players on a site that's already having trouble as is with volume. So of course they' can't change a policy that threatens to put them further in the whole.
Deny deny deny.

Also, some of us have been playing online for years on many sites pre and post BF. Not all sites communicate to us in this manner. Not all sites have this long of cashout delays going back months for both ROW and US players accross all cashout platforms. Not all sites have these communication issues.

This is not a post BF issue. Post BF issues are real, but this is more than simply that.

lock is on the decline.

With the WU processor down and the batch from October being caught up things havent been at the level they should of late.

The last update I had we were still meeting the advertised cashout times in the majority of cases, Ive requested an update on the situation as it stands right now as well as an update on the return of WU to the cashier.