Didn't see a thread about it, should come as no surprise though:


Revolution-Gaming-Network-More-Segregation-Implemented-Poker-Ring-Intertops-Lock

http://www.pokerscout.com/news/weekl...r=2013&week=31



Yeah, more segregation is just what the network needs.

But I'm sure all the player funds are still there. Right, Shane?

It makes me so happy to see revolution die. We should hold a party when they hit under 500 average players.

Hopefully this will encourage a solid site like Intertops to move networks.

Just more evidence proving how broke Lock Poker is.........Pathetic

please explain

This +1.

This +1 as well. It's so sad to see Intertops on a sinking ship because Intertops is the bomb.

I posted this in another thread but figure it applies here too:

LOL at Lock saying segregation is good for Lock poker players. Nothing like using words to convey an entirely different meaning or agenda while hiding the actual problem or issue. Kinda reminds me of when the media talks about gun violence in Chicago. When did it start being gun violence and stop being GANG violence...lol.

Anyways, back to "segregation" and Lock's "alleged" care for its players and general poker ecology. Please Lock, we are not as dumb as you think...lets call "segregation" technology what it really is..."We Can't Pay" technology.

"We Can't Pay" technology is a system set up by Lock to ensure Lock players don't lose money to players on other revo skins. If that were to happen Lock would be liable to said skins and thus have to settle up with those skins for those skins covering their own winning players. Lock clearly doesn't want to be on the hook to any of these skins. Its better they are just on the hook to Joe Blow, who it can just ignore and string along for 6 months before potentially paying out.

Was expecting some total BS answer that had nothing to do with segregation, but that actually made sense. I'm not sure if it's true, but it is believable.

Who would have thought that not paying your players would result in a drop in traffic.

A couple of things are being confused in this thread so I just wanted to clear them up.

Yes the network has put further changes in place under what they still refer to as "Fair Play".

Now we did support some segregation at an earlier stage to protect our players from the other rooms that had become very reg heavy, and we did initially support the networks implimentation of "Fair Play" to help rectify that situation.

However from day one "Fair Play" hasn't worked as it was billed, it has fractured our network and crushed our player numbers especially as our cashout times have done further damage at the same time. The constant and continual "tweaks" to Fair Play have been ridiculous and we certainly don't support them.

A few weeks ago tweaks were made that clearly benefitted another room and when our players asked me about it I pointed out that this seems to go in cycles. Its as if the network is keep trying to please everyone at the same time but all they end up doing is pleasing one room for a couple of weeks, then they change it again and another room is happy. This is clearly what has happened again this week.

Yes we do care about our poker ecology, we are still in business because we don't rely on high volume grinders we have a balanced room with lots of net depositing casual players. Protecting those players ensures the life of our room.

We also aren't the only people looking at this, Merge has taken a very strong stance on this to protect the casual players from Sportsbook. Several skins have been forced off the network for not bringing in enough casual players and for only being a room that siphon off the deposits from other rooms to their winning players. Hell even rooms that had tried to meet Merge's demands on a balanced ecology have still been forced out. However no one is claiming that this behaviour from Merge is because they are broke, and no one threw a party when Merge went below 500 players.

The real difference is cashouts, our cashout times have been terrible for a while and we need to, are are working towards fixing them.

A couple points...

(1) Referencing what Merge is doing...wait excuse me...what Merge is considering doing has absolutely no bearing on anything related to Lock. Your referencing of Merge takes me back to my grade school days when Boy A throws a ball at a girl on the playground and hits her in the head. The teacher comes and says...Boy A...your in trouble why did you hit that girl. Boy A says: well Boy B is doing it. The fact Boy B is doing it has no bearing on the fact that Boy A did it. Such reasoning or referencing is absolutely ridiculous and offensive on an intellectual level. Stop blowing smoke, shifting responsibility, or clouding the issue. Such low-brow tactics make Lock and yourself lose any remaining morsel of credibility you have left. Again, as I posted above....the members on this site are not as dumb or naive as you think.

(2) Something I would like to get your intellectual thoughts on...usually when one joins a team, association, corporation or network the concept which works best for said group is for all factions/members to work together towards a common goal. The idea of joining a network and then stripping your players of the ability to play with other skins on the network really defeats the principle of being on a network does it not??? Which begs the question and brings me back to my original allegation/charge listed above....Lock is doing this not because they care about their players....they are doing this because they cannot pay. They simply would rather be liable to Joe Blow as opposed to Intertops and the other Revo skins.

(3) Instead of confirming or denying my allegation you instead allege that fair play is simply the result of Lock protecting the occasional donkey net depositor from high grinding regs. How honorable of you Lock for giving up all that high daily grinding rake all to protect the occasional donkey net depositor. I call bullsh*t. Again, it has nothing to do with you being honorable. It has to do with you not wanting to be liable to Intertops and all other Revo skins. Easy to string along Joe Blow. Not so easy to string along Intertops and all your other fellow network members. This is the sole reason that these "fair play" changes have been made....which leads me to point (4) and the whole problem with your response.

(4) You have not yet confirmed or denied my allegation/charge of whether Lock is liable to other skins when players on other skins have winning sessions against Lock players. Stated another way, the other skin needs to cover their winning players' "wins" against Lock players out of its own individual skin's pocket and then Lock subsequently needs to make that right by compensating the skin which fronted the winnings.

Based on several personal sources, that I believe are highly credible due to their relations with Lock and the network, I personally know my allegation regarding "fair play" is true. Bottom line: Lock has substantial money issues and would rather be on the hook to Joe Blow as opposed to its other network members. Now, that being said, I understand on a strategic level why you, Shane, did not confirm or deny the allegation I put forth above.

Denying would be an outright lie, which I don't put past you (see your information on the little Lock European Castle escapade), however, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and simply say you just didn't want to get boxed in when you know people have evidence that the allegation/charge I presented above is 100% true. Glad to see you learned from the Castle debacle.

Now, I also understand why you did not admit to it either. Admission would set off a shock wave of fear and scare even more players (rake) away from your site. Thus, while I do not agree with your failure to confirm or deny, I see on a tactical basis why you simple chose to ignore. Lets be honest though my friend....its time for Lock to own its sh*t.

I usually don't get involved in posts of this nature. However, the community has the right to know the truth and reasoning behind Lock's actions. I respect the "poker ecology" (as you put it) and more importantly, so many members on twoplustwo. I find it heartbreaking that you continue your feeble attempt to blow smoke up their a**. Sorry to break it to you bud, they are smarter than you think. Just own it.

Which is likely why Lock's PR department isn't out front on things like this, or with any policy changes that have little or nothing to do with the network. This has been Lock's Achilles heel - keep the fish in dream land, making those deposits. Let payout wait-times crumble, relegating anyone with half a penchant to find out things (you know, like via Google, or 2+2) to see a plethora of reasons why to get that money off Lock ASAP - and they've stayed away in droves. How is this going to produce success in the long term? Eventually, even the fish will find friendlier waters. Even through the muck of the "attempt-to-glaze-over-everything-with-total-BS" shill sites like ones that shall not be mentioned.

I've never been one to toot the "Lock's drying up" horn. But Shane, if this is truly how Lock is trying to operate, then I have little remaining doubt that there are money issues - and to top it off, you basically just admitted it.

I'm sure everyone is vigorously taking notes in the hopes of someday achieving Lock's current level of success.

(1) Im not shifting blame, I take full responsibility for the things we have done wrong. But the point remains you cannot attack us on Fair Play / Segregation and say its a clear sign that Lock has no money when its clear other people in the industry who are not accused of having no money are doing the same thing.

(2) You are confusing your opinion with the truth. People like to bend new situations to add further 'evidence' to their claims that Lock has no money. Protecting fish is an industry wide phenomenon, it in no way supports your claim.

(3) Because thats exactly what fair play is for, just like thats what anonymous tables are for and thats what the segregation on Party is for.

(4) Its a well known fact that a room on a network thats players have a net win at the end of the month are then owed money from the network. And a room that has net losses at the end of the month owes money to the network. Lock's players are net losers so we generally owe money to the network at the end of the month and we meet those payments. Any disputes from rooms owed money are with the network not with us. (Or in one of the publicised cases with a 3rd party supplier as that room as no direct contact with the network)

So Im not sure what the claim is or what you think I should be owning, you talk like I was trying to hide something when the only reason I didn't speak about it is because its something everyone already knows. Its how all networks work. And Im not blowing smoke up anyones asses, just because what I say doesn't match your theory doesn't make it a lie.

Shane its extremely obvious you guys have house accounts sucking up all the money at the tables. Refuse to cash out your players and in meantime you cheat them at the tables with house accounts which only lose to other house accounts. Your scum Shane, simple as that. You should be arrested for fraud. I have proof to of all your cheating house accounts.

Did you and your scum bosses really think they could scam the tables like that and it go undetected?

CwazyMonter pretty much has it nailed. Revolution and the other skins, namely Intertops, pretty much hate Lock at this point. Lock has destroyed the flow of cash (and their own reputation) between skins, to the point where Lock players aren't allowed to significantly lose money to players on other skins at this point due to segregating players above 50NL stakes, etc.

As CwazyMonter posted, the entire point of being a part of a network is to have skins work together and enlarge the number of players in both cash games and tournaments. The only reason a network or skin should EVER want to segregate players from playing against the masses, is if a particular skin cannot actually come up with the money to pay another skin when their players lose. Otherwise you might as well just not be a part of any network.

And as profitable as your casino may be, clearly it's not even close to having a high enough margin to cover your debt from extreme money mismanagement. Please Shane, supply any other common sense reason for players to be segregated from other skins. I dare you, entertain me.

The lies have gone on long enough, and at this point Shane, you are the face of the never-ending excuses. It should only be a matter of time before the inevitable collapse. Conveniently, everything is going wrong all at once, and yet of course, *nothing* has to do with money problems, right? You'd have to be a complete baboon to believe in Lock at this point anymore.

My god ANYONE who believes this crock of **** is beyond delusional.

SHANE what do you have to say to the Intertops affiliates that are alleging that all of this is stemming from Lock not paying Cake, and Cake not paying reconciliations to other operators, creating one giant cluster ****? Are they lying?

For the record, some of us know Merge is having cash flow problems as well.

They lost 75% of their traffic, got rid of rakeback, increased the rake for NL, and started playing with segregation.

None of those are signs of a flourishing business -- those are signs of a struggling room trying to adapt to stay afloat.

Thats actually intertops affiliate, not plural. Its all from the same place.

Now the rooms that did accuse the network of payments not being made have all made that accusation for themselves. I haven't seen Intertops make this statement yet only kahntrutahn. I will believe that Intertops isn't getting their network payments when they say as such, not when an affiliate who makes money by driving players away from one room over to the room he promotes says it.

So far we have seen 3 rooms say they weren't paid by the network, which was in turn blamed on Lock.

The first one of those the network completely unrelated to Lock was in a dispute with over network rule breaches. Which was their reasoning for the non-payment. (A ridiculous way to do business, but that was their decision and it had nothing to do with us.

The second room the that posted claims I wasn't asked about so I had no cause to ask the network about.

The third room initially blamed Revolution but later admitted that the dispute wasn't with Revolution but instead with their 3rd party supplier who they access the network through.

So we have 2 rooms that have definitely blamed the network one of which the network has admitted holding funds back over a dispute. While everyone loves to draw the conclusion that its all connected and further proof Lock has no funds when you actually take a deeper look its just not the clear evidence everyone claims it is.

The bottom line is we make our payments to the network and are up to date with those payments. If the network chooses to not pass those funds on either through a dispute or just poor management we have no control over that process.

Glad to hear your allegedly making payments on time to somebody...lol...what a joke

And as for your comment about Kahn...I'd trust Kahn's dog more than I'd trust anything a Lock official says.

****ing Christ Lock just die already. Leave the poker world alone. ****ing Plague

This is not a strategy, it is the result of a disaster. The only players you have left are "net depositors" because they are the only ones who haven't tried to cashout. Once they do try to cashout, you lose them as customers. I can't tell you how many "net depositors" create accounts on 2p2 and P5's to warn people about lock because they recently tried to cashout for the first time. We are not stupid, stop lying.

Please realize that the majority of winning players are above average intelligence and don't believe your bull ****.

We know you're broke, whether you want to admit it or not.

Oh, and I'm going to throw a party because I HATE YOUR SITE! See, I don't hate merge, because they paid me my ****ing money. If you paid me my own god damn ****ing money tomorrow, I would quit coming to this section of the site, and stop giving a **** about you or your piece of trash site.

Pay me and I leave, don't pay me and I have reasons to keep coming back. Oh, and I talk MAD TRASH about your site in local casinos, but don't say one ill word about merge. Just imagine how much bad publicity you get by all the **** talking me + others do. My bad mouthing your site does WAY more damage then the positive of a stupid card player ad does for you.

Who the hell is going to deposit onto a site that one of the guys they play poker with every week complains about the site not paying him??????

If you have "solid proof" then you should share it with the community since you making a very strong claim with those house accounts.